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Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-12-08 19:40:22 +0000

A brief slice of slang

For better or worse blacks in America have embraced certain ethnic slurs. "Nigga" and "jig" come to mind immediately. -- Please tell me I do not need to explain the difference between "nigga" and "nigger." -- I have not heard the black community include "nigger," but they certainly have "Uncle Tom" with all its implications. When Chuck D and David Chapel routinely use Uncle Tom (Aceylone just uses "Tommy") it becomes part of America's slang, meaning a black person who purposely hurts blacks for there own personal gain. "How is not using the stereotypical terms nigger and Uncle Tom perpetuating stereotypes?... Where a group of white men might use nigger to break down stereotypes, the same group is clearly upholding a stereotype when using Uncle Tom." -tgl Not using terms obviously does nothing. Scolding those that do, does. For a person to group Uncle Tom and nigger (not nigga) together shows that you have missed something. "Nigger" is a race cut down. It has no real meaning like "honky" or "spic", and it reveals more about the person using it and nothing about the person prescribed to it. Uncle Tom, jig, and nigga have meaning that was embraced by blacks. Newt Gingrich is not my nigga. Barack Obama is not an Uncle Tom. Finally, can we get passed what people should and should not be doing based on race?

Posted by frame609 on 2004-12-08 20:05:03 +0000

I think the 'Uncle Tom' critique here is a little off. It's not blacks that hurt other blacks for their own personal gain so much as it is blacks kowtowing to whites....allowing themselves to be whitewashed, as it were.

Posted by frame609 on 2004-12-08 20:10:23 +0000

http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/uncle_tom.htm

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-12-08 20:42:46 +0000

True, Frame, true...

Posted by tgl on 2004-12-08 21:01:50 +0000

Blacks embracing nigga and Uncle Tom or Tommy is one thing. Whites using the slang is another. It's just weird, that's all. Was Harriet Beecher Stowe white? I agree, let's get passed what people should or should be doing based on race! Michael Powell would be spineless whether he's Black or White, or whether I'm Black or White. Colin Powell may be an Uncle Tom, however, maybe his actions are better explained by is financial status, not his racial status. Class trumps race in this country.

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2004-12-08 21:21:36 +0000

Who are we kidding here there's no difference between nigga and nigger, From my American Heritage Dictionary: Nigger: n. Offensive slang. 1.a. Used as a disparaging term for a Black person. b. Used as a disparaging term for a member of any dark-skinned people 2. Used as a disparaging term for a member of any socially, economically, or politically deprived group of people. I challenge you to tell me that your definition of "nigga" isn't definition number 2. FWIW: Honky, Spic and Uncle Tom are all labelled "Offensive Slang." How we can say none of them mean anything is kind of disingenious.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-12-08 21:35:56 +0000

Challenge taken. I'm telling you that when people use "my nigga" they mean "my friend". When the people I work with call each other nigga, it is absolutely not "a disparaging term for a member of any socially, economically, or politically deprived group of people." Sorry, bizquiq, you are very wrong...

Posted by rladew on 2004-12-08 21:55:35 +0000

if we have to have an academic discussion and feel awkward and rationalize using it, tacticly, its probably a good idea not to use racial slang that we are not associated with. If Dawn feels Colin or Michael Powell is an asshole: Bravo! Lets leave it at that. The whole 'Uncle Tom' thing is silly. _______________________________ â€œThe outer space beings are my brothers. They sent me here. They already know my music.â€ --SUN RA

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-12-08 22:01:55 +0000

It's too bad you find it weird that white's use black slang, because you might want to get used to it. It is happening more and more everyday, and with hip-hop becoming more popular, you can't do a whole lot to change it. I've watched five white kids and five black kids all call each other "nigga" in front of my restaurant. It's just not weird to me anymore. Colin Powell's actions are better explained by his racial status. Becoming the Secretary of State and "face" of an adminstration that hurt and disenfranchised so many blacks in the past two elections, says a lot more when he's black than if he's rich. The reason the black community dislikes Powell being a Bushy is not because he's rich; it's because he's black.

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2004-12-08 22:29:47 +0000

Gimme a break, Dawn. Even if you want it to mean "friend," and sure I'll bite, I don't see how you can deny it's clearly linked to, or, at the very least, stemmed off from the word nigger.

Posted by tgl on 2004-12-08 22:53:20 +0000

The meanings of words change over time, granted. I guess I will have to get used to it. A White person criticising a Black for not acting Black will continue to be a bit weird for me, no matter what word you use. I'll grant Bush this: he's comfortable surrounding himself with women & minorities. Then again, they're all ideologically the same. Did you click through to the Tavis Smalley interview from A. Sullivan?

Posted by frame609 on 2004-12-09 04:25:58 +0000

The fact that the word 'nigga' is used in such a casual fashion speaks volumes about the word's definition changing- happens every now and again, when groups try and 'reclaim' words (Riot Grrrl, you may remember, was all about this method with 'bitch' and 'slut,' but with less success.) However, the fact that we're even having this extended conversation kinda means that it's still an offensive word, albiet maybe a little bit less so than before. Having said all that, 'nigger' has always beer the most offensive slang to me because it points back to the day when blacks were slaves- using 'nigger' as a putdown is referring back to that time when blacks were considered to be less than human.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-12-09 04:52:49 +0000

I'm not denying this at all, bizquig, and I haven't.

Posted by frame609 on 2004-12-09 05:20:09 +0000

I'll give you all one guess what I was thinking about when I typoed 'has always beer' in my post up above. Yow!

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-12-09 05:29:57 +0000

I did read that piece (from drudgereport.com), and it proves my point even further. As Smalley quotes Nora Zeale Hurston, "All my skin folk ain't my kinfolk." There is no "acting black" anymore. A black man can wear a Larry Bird jersey, eat mutton, and sip Earl Grey at tea-time, but still stick up for black voters in Florida, right? I think Colin recognized how badly Bush's campaign treated African Americans and stepped down, his saving grace. This piece also shows how middle of the road NPR actually is.

Posted by tgl on 2004-12-09 14:39:21 +0000

It's possible there is no "acting black" anymore, a good thing. Which sort of undercuts the meaning of the label "Uncle Tom". I'm not as optimistic about Colin's reasons for leaving as you are, i.e., he did it out of some moral outrage.

Posted by tgl on 2004-12-09 14:39:46 +0000

NPR is middle of the road, I've always agreed with that.

Posted by tgl on 2004-12-09 14:40:47 +0000

NC?

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2004-12-09 17:37:24 +0000

Same thing with the word cunt. One side of the pond it means vulva, the other it means idiot. Doesn't change the fact that it's a harsh word.

Posted by rladew on 2004-12-09 17:56:27 +0000

With all due respect Dawn, you have brass ones to contemplate / speculate what Colin is or is not doing for his people. Why the fuck do you even care? If he's doing a bad job say so. Why are we making this such a racial issue? And then once we have made it a racial issue, why are we having these academic defenses of what we mean by slang words? Wouldn't just be easier to say whether or not we think politician x has done a good job or not, or is it always necessary to give politician x a report card on what he's has or has not done for his/her race lately? I just am having a hard time with this whole thread.... ho hum.. _______________________________ â€œThe outer space beings are my brothers. They sent me here. They already know my music.â€ --SUN RA

Posted by tgl on 2004-12-09 18:14:11 +0000

Well, some might see it as a character issue. The Right is telling us that we should care about character.

Posted by rladew on 2004-12-09 18:34:30 +0000

so is the argument that Colin Powell is weak with his character? I spose I could get behind that more (or at least accept it better) than "he's selling out his people" _______________________________ â€œThe outer space beings are my brothers. They sent me here. They already know my music.â€ --SUN RA

Posted by tgl on 2004-12-09 19:04:49 +0000

Well... Him selling out his people is the indicator of his weak character.

Posted by g-dogg on 2004-12-09 19:47:51 +0000

I once asked for "jimmies" on my ice cream. A stranger in line told me that it was a derogatory term. I call them sprinkles now.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-12-10 05:59:12 +0000

I suppose... I assume "acting" to be day to day things, instead of "acting on behalf of" which politicians do. But you have a valid point... I bet you Lady Powell said something to Colin. Isn't the rumor that she stopped Colin for running for office?

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-12-10 06:08:01 +0000

Point by Point, rladew: "Why the fuck do you even care?" --I care because it says a lot about the character of our Secretary of State, our "face to the world." And even though I'm white, I care about the minorities in my country. "Why are we making this such a racial issue?" -- Because we are taking about race and slang in this thread, and how it applies to - and speaks of - our government. "Why are we having these academic defenses of what we mean by slang words?" -- I started it because I love etymology. It facinates me. "Wouldn't just be easier to say whether or not we think politician x has done a good job or not, or is it always necessary to give politician x a report card on what he's has or has not done for his/her race lately?" -- I don't think any of us always do it, nor is it necessary. We don't talk about what Hillary has done for whites people. That's silly. Plus, I think it is more about what they have done against a race, or kowtowing, as I best heard it.

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A brief slice of slang