Eh, I'm not sure it's fair to blame a 14-year-old for getting strong-armed into the Hitler Youth... A saw a quote last night from the editor of the major Jewish newspaper in Germany who said he was sure Ratzinger would continue the work PJPTS has started, of making reparations between Jews & Catholics. I'll track it down...
OK, couldn't find the exact article, but this one from [url=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-profile20apr20,0,1182319.story?coll=la-home-headlines]the LA Times[/url] is clearly written & includes some different viewpoints.
Posted by frame609 on 2005-04-20 07:09:37 +0000
Whether or not it's fair, you have to admit that 'New Pope = Hitler Youth' is a hell of a subject line.
Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-04-20 07:10:30 +0000
LOL - it's pure MTF genius, no diggity.
Posted by frame609 on 2005-04-20 07:34:58 +0000
The whole thing is kinda funny, too, because here's the church electing a new pope for the first time in the lives of millions of people, and bam! They've got ANOTHER P.R. disaster on their hands. Way to go, cardinals!
Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-04-20 12:27:00 +0000
Can't blame him, though... As a jew, I would join the Hitler Youth if it meant I would get to guard a BMW plant. Love my nazi ride.
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-20 15:56:14 +0000
Not sure it's a P.R. disaster:
He was enrolled in Hitler Youth at age 12, I believe, supposedly "against his will". Never joined the Nazi Party, was finally conscripted into the Army within the last months of the war and deserted immediately. Spent the remainder of the war in a US P.O.W. camp.
Sounds like a bastard, though. His homily at today's Mass did backpedal a bit from his homily before the conclave. However, I'm sure he still believes the world is best by a "tyranny of relativism".
Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-04-20 16:02:51 +0000
Now that's funny.
Yes, my hubz is very please with his E30 - even belongs to an online forum with other E30-owners so he can chat about it even when he's not driving/fixing/cleaning/polishing it...
Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-04-20 16:14:01 +0000
Seriously, what a P.R. disaster. So out of all the Cardinals, they go with the Hitler Youth guy? After JPII, that is quite a slap in the face.
What was the Conclave like:
"So, I think the next Pope should be... um... let's go with the scary Nazi. That should be good."
"Yeah, we could've waited till the next Pope for a German to avoid the whole Hitler thing, but let's give it a shot now."
Anti-Woman, Anti-choice, scarred past = disaster.
Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-04-20 16:32:14 +0000
E30? tsch. Those things have twice as many wheels as BMWs are supposed to. In Benedict's Hitler Youth days during WWII, BMWs all had the right number of wheels.
Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-04-20 16:55:12 +0000
And I quote: "So he's into BMW bikes, then? They're granddad bikes - 'Granddad goes on tour'. Tsch."
Heh heh heh.
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-20 17:57:42 +0000
"Benedict's Hitler Youth Days"
Sounds like a song title.
Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-04-20 18:04:55 +0000
"The Pope's Hitler Youth Days"
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-20 18:23:16 +0000
Let's not forget that JP2 was anti-woman & anti-choice.
The scarred past thing is a bit overblown.
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-20 18:24:14 +0000
RE: not sure it's a disaster
"best" should be "beset", thanks.
Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-04-20 18:40:18 +0000
I disagree. The church needed to move away from anti-choice/anti-women policy, and instead of going forward after JPII, they took a step backward.
How can Hitler Youth be overblown? "Well, I didn't really want to join." Please. Talk about lack of faith...
Can any feminist possibly be Catholic? Seriously, I think it's over for the Vatican.
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-20 19:16:43 +0000
Is not taking a step forward the same as taking a step backward?
Sounds like dawnbixtler is standing behind every decision he made when he was twelve as a core pillar of his humanity.
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-20 19:18:32 +0000
Why does the Church need to move away from anti-choice/anti-woman? Does this make you reconsider your allegience to the Church in Rome?
I agree that the Church's archaic view of birth control does not help the AIDS epidemic in Africa. Disallowing women priests effects non-Catholics... how?
Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-04-20 19:30:57 +0000
Are you being sarcastic?
Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-04-20 19:32:18 +0000
No.
Yes I am.
Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-04-20 19:38:14 +0000
And how about the decisions he made when he was 16 or 17?
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-20 20:17:59 +0000
Like never joining the Nazi Party?
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-20 20:18:17 +0000
Just a bit.
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-20 21:25:34 +0000
I was in error, he was 14 when he gleefully enjoyed the perks of fascism.
In his memoirs, the new Pope wrote that he was enrolled in the Nazi youth movement against his will when he was 14 in 1941, when membership was compulsory. He said he was soon let out because of his studies for the priesthood.
Two years later he was drafted into a Nazi anti-aircraft unit as a helper, a common task for teenage boys too young to be soldiers. A year later he was released, only to be sent to the Austrian-Hungarian border to construct tank barriers.
He deserted the Germany army in May, 1945, and returned to Traunstein — a risky move, since deserters were shot on the spot if caught, or publicly hanged as examples to others.
When he arrived home, U.S. soldiers took him prisoner and held him in a POW camp for several weeks. Upon his release, he re-entered the seminary.
At least two people on this board are Eagle Scouts, which may be regarded by some as kinda creepy/right wing/whatever.
Posted by sid jagger on 2005-04-21 12:28:50 +0000
i don't think that the church has any intention of trying to be more liberal and gain support in the states but rather re-defining their more right wing stance and allowing themselves to be separatists, no longer lossing on the right and the left as they try to suit both but diving head first into the right/standard church practices and hopefully fostering more of an evangelical following globally.
Posted by sid jagger on 2005-04-21 12:30:04 +0000
that said: they can all rot in their fantasy hell for all i care.
Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-04-21 15:05:18 +0000
Sid Jagger's up in this piece. I bet he's been to CBGB's...
Uh, several weeks at a US POW camp? One of my grandad's was shot down over Germany and held in a German POW camp for almost a year. Can't feel sorry for Pope Bene.
Posted by tgl on 2005-04-22 15:33:40 +0000
I didn't intend to imply that anyone should feel sorry for him.
Posted by Miriam on 2005-04-22 15:44:50 +0000
I don't think he hates Jews, anyway. How could he? He's been wearing a kipah/yarmulke for years!
In his memoirs, the new Pope wrote that he was enrolled in the Nazi youth movement against his will when he was 14 in 1941, when membership was compulsory. He said he was soon let out because of his studies for the priesthood. Two years later he was drafted into a Nazi anti-aircraft unit as a helper, a common task for teenage boys too young to be soldiers. A year later he was released, only to be sent to the Austrian-Hungarian border to construct tank barriers. He deserted the Germany army in May, 1945, and returned to Traunstein — a risky move, since deserters were shot on the spot if caught, or publicly hanged as examples to others. When he arrived home, U.S. soldiers took him prisoner and held him in a POW camp for several weeks. Upon his release, he re-entered the seminary.
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