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Posted by cdubrocker on 2005-12-14 16:55:57 +0000

I have "Junta" dubbed onto tape, and it's supposed to be one of their best, though I don't remember as I haven't listened to it since college. However, it does open up with "Fee," which is a nostaligic college favorite of mine. You're welcome to borrow it - I think Phish folks think of it as their best album.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-14 19:25:52 +0000

How big is this can of worms? OK, as you know Phish is a jam band, thus their best work will likely be contained on a live recording, and there is the Elektra release double album "A Live One". Fanatastic stuff, however it does have a 30 mintue version of 'Tweezer' which gets boring, and the six minute 'vocal jam' at the end of 'You Enjoy Myself' is unecessary and distracts from one of the great guitar solos of our time (reminds my of Johnny Greenwood's in 'Just' every listen). This is the album that got me into Phish, driving across the country in February of 1997. Of the studio albums, it is hard to flat out fail, but I would go with either "Picture of Nectar" with tons and tons of hits, or the fairly recent "Farmhouse" a well crafted record that runs the gamut and had some Phish fans realize Trey's potential in the studio. Avoid the album "Hoist". It has essentially two good songs, 'Down with Disease' and 'Sample in a Jar', and both are always superior live. I don't like "Billy Breathes" either, but I've never owned it... But to go back to live stuff -- unless you really want throw yourself into the Phishhead madness, and look for tapes of Stowe VT with Santana July 1994, or Worcester Collesium Dec 31st 1993, there is the 20 volume live Elektra series. I have Vol. 15 (wonderful cover of 'Remain in Light') and Vol. 5 (not so hot). I have heard Vol. 7 taken from a 1993 show is spectacular, and I just checked allmusic and they confirm. I'm going to put on some version of 'You enjoy Myself'

Posted by frame609 on 2005-12-14 19:28:53 +0000

Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-12-14 19:29:38 +0000

God bless you, my child.

Posted by Honar the librarian on 2005-12-14 19:50:48 +0000

I don't think phish ever played Stowe w/ Santana, and they difinitely didn't do it in 1994 (the two toured together in late July/August of '92, w/ no shows in Vermont. (cf.) I was at the 1994 July show in Vermont, which was at Sugarbush, and while quite stoned, I wasn't so stoned that I didn't notice Santana. I was stoned enough to jump out of moving car, though.

Posted by tgl on 2005-12-14 20:18:56 +0000

Existential question: How stoned must one be to not notice Santana?

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-14 20:33:07 +0000

Yes, Stowe was in 1992 with Santana... I somehow thought that couldn't have happened with the H.O.R.D.E. festival in the same summer, but I'm wrong...

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-14 20:38:40 +0000

Hear! Hear! frame says it best...

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-14 20:40:39 +0000

Um, frame says nothing...

Posted by mr. mister on 2005-12-14 20:42:09 +0000

I saw the Phish/Santana show at Great Woods. Santana said "We are all surrounded by angels" then it was guitar solo heaven

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-14 20:42:21 +0000

"a picture is worth a thousand words"

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-14 20:46:19 +0000

No argument. But what I find interesting that people who don't/won't like Phish never discuss why; they just roll their eyes or say they don't like the fans. Always intriguing, because the music is insanely good.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-14 20:58:09 +0000

Fairly stoned, and one should probably have had a few cocktails within the hour.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-14 21:08:43 +0000

How Hypocritical is this: I have no problem listening to Coltrane / brotzmann / Zorn / Ayler / Taylor / Dolphy / Coleman / Davis / Vandermark / Yoshihide / Bailey etc. etc. go on for as long as it takes to get the job done... But if it someone playing the guitar in an extended form in some type of way that my ears would perceive as a "rock" format, I just cant take it. Im sorry, (there are some exceptions to this like the 30+ minute version of Ween's poopship destroyer) but I like my rock verse / chorus / verse, then get the fuck out of dodge and move on to the next song. If I cant remember a melody or hum one at least from a rock song, my brain shuts off in terms of intrest. why is the same not true if it's more from a jazz or avant / creative improvised perspective? I dont have a good answer. I'm sorry... The culture certainly plays into it, as Im sure yr brain has to work overtime not to stereotype the multitude pf Phish bumperstickers / tie dyes, dreadlocks, etc. Someday its possible I will hear something from Phish I like. For my personal taste: I cant relate emotionally or physically to their music. I cant latch on to a beat or a melody. I cant capture an emotion or feeling... I just get empty and cold. Sorry.

Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-12-14 21:08:44 +0000

I hate them for the same reason I hate post-Syd Barrett Pink Floyd and the Grateful Dead: I am now, have always been, and always will be a hippie-hating post-punk/goth/metal/pop kid. That will never change.

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2005-12-14 21:25:10 +0000

Hypocritical, a bit. Elitist, a bit. Fascinating post, however. We could use more self-criticism like this on RSN.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-12-14 21:30:20 +0000

Can't go wrong with Picture of Nectar, but I'm a Rift guy. (Lawn Boy, too) I'm with all of you who hate Phish from the getgo (go man go) but I made the mistake of actually listening to them once in college and realized that they're really good, possibly the most talented band of our era, and play very inclusive music, as opposed to rubbing their talent all in your face. I think most people who don't like Phish haven't ever listened to them _alone_.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-14 21:30:47 +0000

I find Trey Anastasio, Frank Zappa, Duane Allman, Hendrix styled jazz-rock to be most pleasing. I love jazz (Coltrane & Mingus especially) and guitar players still create the 'best' sound to my ear, and when the two shall meet, look out! Jandek must also leave you cold? Or maybe that's the point...

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-14 21:32:48 +0000

Wouldn't it be ashame to dislike Mozart and Beethoven, because one didn't like "band kids" from high school.

Posted by tgl on 2005-12-14 21:37:34 +0000

[insert-comment-regarding-solitary-pleasures]

Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-12-14 21:41:56 +0000

I can't help it - my brain only works in Breakfast Club configurations. (I was a band kid in high school, but I prefer Sousa.)

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-14 21:42:31 +0000

yes it would. Ill have to put some Phish on sometime and commit to words what I dislike about it. Things I dont inherently care about in music: -technical proficiency for its own sake -long rock guitar solos (how much cooler would the Knack's My sharona be without the masturbatory guitar solo in the middle) -the fan clubs You deserve a better answer than I can give you to yr Phish question, db, but for all creative arts (music, film, art, poetry, fiction , whatever) ultimately it moves you or it doesn't. At least I dislike Phish though. they're not wallpaper. I have a reaction to them, as opposed to 95% of slop that you just have no reaction to whatsoever. Its more fun to dislike something with a passion than to just have it be plain mediocre. working to edge down my snobbiness, NP

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-14 21:43:30 +0000

WASHINGTON POST MARCH! Sousa was the shit. I love marching music for some odd reason.... remember those marching band q tip hats? didnt like those so much...

Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-12-14 21:45:05 +0000

Marching music & bagpipes. It makes no sense, but I get super-excited listening to it.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-14 21:46:34 +0000

Omigod: whenever Neurosis or Ayler go into one of their sub "bagpipe" modes - I freak out. Too cool!

Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-12-14 21:50:51 +0000

Do you have any Scottish in ye, lad? I have!

Posted by Miriam on 2005-12-15 00:33:38 +0000

I never did enough drugs to justify being a true Phish fan. I only listened to them in college because the boy I liked did.

Posted by Miriam on 2005-12-15 00:34:45 +0000

I have a box full of marches in my office. If you want 'em I'll send 'em to you!

Posted by frame609 on 2005-12-15 05:06:59 +0000

I think most people who don't like Phish haven't ever listened to them _alone_. Funny, that's the same argument I usually make regarding Jandek. Anyway: My dislike of Phish is similar to my dislike of the Grateful Dead: Too noodly for my tastes, too wanky, not enough structure. When there is structure (and i know that there sometimes is, because I a} went to school in New Hampshire, and b} went to camp with a bunch of Phish/Dead fans), I don't like their tones.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-15 05:07:30 +0000

You're an honest man, NP. I always have trouble pin pointing why I don't like Dave Matthews. I can't figure it out. Gone to shows, I've listened to his music alone with the lights out, I've tried to recall the first few times I heard David Matthews... I like your explanation though, "some bands just leave me cold."

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-15 05:34:51 +0000

M, Please... both of my Mormon friends dug Phish (yes, one of them did halt the whole Mormon thing). Seriously though, if you weren't _doing drugs_ you could still be a Phish fan. They weren't quintessential "just-say-no-indie-rock" being on Elektra (obviously Fugazi was putting out better music on a more DIY label) but they made money off of concert tickets and put out an astonishing amount of good music from like '88 to '03.

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2005-12-15 14:01:19 +0000

I'll give you this about the DMB: they have a very distinctive and (somewhat) unique sound for a band that is massively popular. That's pretty damned impressive, although, they're not challenging by any stretch of the imagination. It's like the musical equivalent of khaki pants: perfectly fine but nothing that sticks out of the crowd.

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2005-12-15 14:02:53 +0000

This is a ballsy statement.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 14:03:16 +0000

we should get Mr. Matthews in the next Dockers (tm) ad. Hey Mr. Matthews: Nice Pants ;)

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2005-12-15 14:13:09 +0000

I keep going back to the fact that they managed to be the biggest American rock band without any radio, and that's what always intrigued me. There's got to be something there, and I'm not saying I have to love it, I just want to understand the Phish phenomenon. Perhaps it was the community that they built with their fans. Perhaps it was the songs. Perhaps it was their "jam" tendencies. Perhaps it was the drugs. I am trying to figure them out and I guess that's why I'm curious to give them a shot, again. Admitedly, they played UNH not once, but twice (Frosh and Soph years), and at the time I was just too goddamned cool for everybody to be bothered seeing "some Hippie dogshit" like Phish. I'll say it now, it's a massive regret of mine, probably shoulda saw at least one of those. For crying out loud. I detest ska, but I saw the Bosstones and Bim Skala Bim at UNH my Frosh year. Although, maybe Phish's shows wouldn't'a been my cup 'o tea. Lyndon's band opened up for the pederast in Phish last year at the Paradise. That show was a little ridiculous. I think the pederast's band "jammed out" on some Steve Miller tunes. Now that was some serious bullshit.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 14:22:18 +0000

2 more Phish comments: One negative that has nothing to do with their music but with the fan club , one potentially positive... - : On the night of the Phish show @ UNH (must've been the 2nd one BQ is mentioning), a funloving Phish fan (I spose the last comment could be an unfair judgement with no inherent Phish fan proof, so to rephrase: someone who was severely inebriated, tie dye clad and dreadlocked)left a large amount of urine in the dryer of the laundry facilities I was using in the lower quad. ick. +: Based on this thread, I am going to grab the headphones and soulseek and do my best to listen with no strings attached or preconceived notions. BQ and DB are right. this is an interesting thread with insightful comments. Maybe it will start to compete with my current fascination of ambient doom metal...

Posted by tgl on 2005-12-15 14:24:35 +0000

Sousa! Ha! I prefer Bagley. Scroll down for it. RS.N: Making marching band music criticism elitist since 2005.

Posted by G lib on 2005-12-15 14:26:53 +0000

Admitedly, they played UNH not once, but twice...For crying out loud. I detest ska, but I saw the Bosstones and Bim Skala Bim at UNH my Frosh year. I went to all three shows. Bosstones/Bim Skala Bim, both Phish shows, and every single other show I could get my sorry ass to. The only thing that I have to add to the conversation is that I took PChippy to the Anastasio/ Leo Kottke show at Memorial Hall last year. My take-- Kottke should never collaborate again. IMHO, the show sucked, but Chippy seemed to like it.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 14:34:40 +0000

On that same tour, they played Holman Stadium in Nashua (circa 1991 1992 ish Im guessing here). That summer, Nashua had Great Woods style acts playing there until the local yokels shut em down for noise production past 10:00 pm... Mostly VH1 midlife crisis artists... no big ACDC Metallica type shows...

Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-12-15 15:42:18 +0000

A lot of things have been said about me. "He doesn't have any balls" isn't one of them.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-12-15 15:50:32 +0000

I've always been more impressed (note, no positive connotation to that word) of how little music most bands produce. I've been in bands, and we've played only a few shows, and put together maybe a dozen tunes, and I've been completely sick of them. The traditional rock-band method of a record of 10-15 songs of new material every couple of years? And these people are referred to as artists? So you get a band like Phish, that has an innumerable number of original music, much of which has never been released on a studio album. There's never the "We need to write another song for the next album" mentality... Then every time they play a song it's different, yeah, there's the jammy thing there, but a lot of it is that they remember that playing music is still "playing", and they are definitely just having fun up there. Then you compound to that their ability to cover anything amazingly, and annually play a concert in which the cover a different classic album in its entirety... </gush> I also can't stand the Phishheads. I went to a few Phish shows in college, and I went to The Clifford Ball, which was one of their first weekend long festivals, and I had a great time, and I was cooked, and I've never been to see them live again, which is too bad, because they put on a great show, I just can't stand the crowd. Ditto the Beastie Boys.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 16:21:35 +0000

99.9 % of "recording stars" are exactly as you described which does make you appreciate a Phish, a Prince (look out 2006!), a Zappa, a Bill Laswell, a Zorn or an Ennio Morricone (400+ albums at last count) these artists tap into what I remember Bizquig calling "unafraid to fail" If you have hundreds of recordings are they all going to be good (or even 25%?) fuck no! but at least as artists they are trying things, creating new music all the time and never apologizing to critics who go around wearing padlocks on their ears..

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2005-12-15 16:51:03 +0000

Let me tell you something... Putting out 10-15 quality songs every other year is substantially harder than you'd think. Should we be bullshit that so-and-so author only writes only 300 page novels every now and again? How many miles of David Foster Wallace's cock has this board eaten and how many books has he got? I think everybody here says he's an artist (well, maybe not me, but that's a different post). I'll tell you this though, after a whole year of playing (roughly) the same set somewhere between 20 and 30 times, it's tough to motivate one's self again and again. The dreaded "Groundhog Day" effect. But, nowadays, Ed and I feel like it's the performer's job to not insult the audience's intelligence and, dare I say it?, perform for a paying audience who came to see them and could care less whether or not the performer is sick of the set list. That is where yet another form of artistry comes in. Case in point, Mike and I stood outside Fenway to listen to the Stones concert. You could make a case that they've been mailing it in for years, but I'll counter that for a bunch of 60-somethings, one of 'em beat cancer, they sounded pretty goddamned tight and enthusiastic, even if it probably was the umpteen thousandth time they'd played "Start Me Up" et al.

Posted by tgl on 2005-12-15 17:05:24 +0000

Musician versus artist. Is the violin player in an orchestra an artist or a musician? Is a song still good art if it's performed poorly? More pointedly, am I just a programmer? An aside: Brendan is fascinated with fellatio, isn't he? Can I ask one more question?

Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-12-15 17:07:14 +0000

I have to say, I am transfixed by Brendan's burning question. How many miles of David Foster Wallace's cock has this board eaten? Wow.

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2005-12-15 17:10:03 +0000

True indeed.

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2005-12-15 17:11:30 +0000

Who isn't down with fellatio?

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2005-12-15 17:17:30 +0000

Thread of the Year nominee...

Posted by frame609 on 2005-12-15 17:20:44 +0000

Dave Matthews is a motherfucker of a guitar player. Having said that, his voice irritates the piss out of me.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 17:22:14 +0000

excellent song title.... not sure who would ultimately use it though lol

Posted by tgl on 2005-12-15 17:25:34 +0000

My aside should have been: Brendan is fascinated with fellatio as an indicator of badness. So the question should be, "Why aren't you down with fellatio?" --- I probably should have left out the aside, seeing as it may detract from this being the Thread of the Year.

Posted by frame609 on 2005-12-15 17:27:32 +0000

In any thread concerning both Phish and David Foster Wallace, asides are vital.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 17:34:45 +0000

OK, noise fiends.... what's the noisiest, loudest PHISH album? Thats the one I wanna start with methinks...

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2005-12-15 17:36:08 +0000

Um, no... In the instance of "how many miles of DFW's cock has been eaten," fellatio is in reference to "sycophantic idolatry" not "badness." Telling Rich to eat a dick was, well, just that.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-15 17:55:32 +0000

Hell of a thread, I agree BQ. Noisiest Phish... Probably a live offering, but for studio stuff, I'd again go with Pictures of Nectar. Junta is the most 'jazz' of the studio stuff, so you might want to check that out. But also there are some great instrumentals on 'Farmhouse'.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-12-15 18:09:01 +0000

I wholeheartedly agree, putting out 10-15 new quality songs is hard. Most bands can't do it once, nevertheless every couple of years. It's a lot of work. What impresses me about Phish is that they produce way more than that, way more frequently, and they never broke a sweat over it. (or at least, never seemed to) It just oozed out of them. If you played what you liked to play, and it titilated both you and the audience, then when they paid to see you they would expect that instead of your cookie cutter set. Just because you feel sorry for your audience and give them some pity-hits doesn't make you any less of a sellout.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-12-15 18:16:29 +0000

I'd have to go with The White Tape for that one... some hits, some noise, and some tracks that seem like an homage to how bad Revolution #9 is... I hate it. A Zorn fan should love it.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 18:24:45 +0000

ouch. its funny cuz its true... anyone care to trade tapes / cdR's ? ;) RL

Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-12-15 18:39:13 +0000

I could burn it for you and give it to you the next time I see you... ha ha ha... parents seeing people! ha ha ha!

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 18:43:54 +0000

great scott! allston c4RT maybe (Jan cd release...)

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-15 18:52:03 +0000

You both live in Western Mass...

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 18:55:27 +0000

Really?

Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-12-15 19:00:06 +0000

Eastern MA = area inside of 128 Central MA = area inside of 495/290/395 Western MA = beyond I'm _just_ beyond 495... a Western MA bordertown, in the old days we would have had slaves.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2005-12-15 19:01:54 +0000

me = 90 west to the Rt 84 exit through sturbridge Brimfield (12 miles) then to Monson. ahhh urban Monson...

Posted by Honar the librarian on 2005-12-15 20:44:47 +0000

You know 10D, when I drove out to your house I tried to get off rte. 2 onto 128, because it felt like we had gone so fuckin' far. I really thought it was 495.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-12-15 20:45:40 +0000

I thought you seemed stoned

Posted by Honar the librarian on 2005-12-15 20:48:38 +0000

No, just overwhelmed by the vastness that is central mass.

Posted by tgl on 2005-12-15 20:54:19 +0000

Frickin' #new link.

Posted by tgl on 2005-12-15 20:57:31 +0000

Someone reply to this so that I can check to see if the "new" link from the recent posts page will jump correctly. Thanks.

Posted by mr. mister on 2005-12-15 20:59:33 +0000

this thread is so NSFW

Posted by tgl on 2005-12-15 21:11:37 +0000

And again?

Posted by Miriam on 2005-12-15 21:43:42 +0000

I love it when you update!

Posted by pchippy on 2005-12-15 23:26:27 +0000

"A Picture of Nectar" gets my vote.

Posted by frame609 on 2005-12-16 05:30:10 +0000

Fuckin' hippie.

Posted by tgl on 2005-12-16 14:02:01 +0000

P. Chippy is the hippiest and conservativest person I know.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-12-16 17:16:46 +0000

Dare I say 'realist'?