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Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-07 17:56:32 +0000

I caught that this morning from Drudge. That's going to be a fairly big asterisk next to Bond's name.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-03-07 18:06:23 +0000

I hope not. I hope they make an example of him. Kick him out entirely, he's bad for the game.

Posted by tgl on 2006-03-07 18:20:22 +0000

Cheating defines the game. They should make Bonds's an example of what happens when you get caught.

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-03-07 18:35:06 +0000

All of his shit should be wiped out- stats, awards, etc. In the case of the awards, give 'em to the runners up.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-07 18:42:13 +0000

Are we to believe that 73 hr in a season will now not be the benchmark? I'd loved for it to happen, but I don't MLB doing it.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-03-07 19:12:12 +0000

...and if they remove it, what becomes the record? McGuire's 70? Sosa's 66? Go back to 61?

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-07 19:28:54 +0000

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-03-08 12:11:14 +0000

OK, so I've thought about this some more, and listened to a bunch of WEEI nuts talk about the issue. Quick summary:

1. It's really funny that they have been referring to Babe Ruth as "The White Guy" in reference to his home run record.
2. Barry Bonds is the worst perpetrator of a rampant problem, and needs to be made an example of to begin fixing the bigger problem.
3. Just as steroids sympathizers will use as an excuse that there was no steroid policy until 2002 and no enforcement thereof until 2005, baseball owners will use the player's association's resistance as an excuse for the lack of creation of said policy. This makes it equally moot and invalid. Regardless of the presence of the rule, excessive use of steroids (I say excessive because the line is fine, I use steroids for my hives) is wrong and cheating. Everyone is to blame: the users, the union, the owners.
4. The most vile villains in this saga are the owners, since they are still playing (and in the media, being allowed to play) the high ground. When they have knowingly turned a blind eye to this problem over the past decade, and worse so, even encouraged it, as in 1998 they used McGuire and Sosa to rebuild fan support of the then fledgling sport.
5. As a dirt-dog-lovin, slugger-hatin fan of the game, I can not claim piety, as my current fandom of baseball, which I'd lost interest in as early as junior high, can directly be traced to the McGuire-Sosa battle in 1998. (I was pulling for Sosa)

Discuss.

Posted by tgl on 2006-03-08 12:21:33 +0000

awesome: "of the then fledgling sport"

Posted by tgl on 2006-03-08 12:53:32 +0000

1. Since Babe Ruth doesn't own the career HR record, referring to him as "The White Guy" doesn't make any sense. Especially if they are indicating that he's the only white man on the career HR list, which is ludicruous, because every player who's been at bat or played an inning (an out?) should technically be on the career list, and I'm willing to bet that even at this stage there are more non-Latino Caucasions who have been in the Majors than non-whites. 2. Bonds should pull a Palmeiro, quietly disappear. His continued denials are more embarassing than the steroid use itself. I don't know how you make an example of him. I'm not advocate of altering the record books, for what it's worth, seems like there is way too much gray space. 3. ... 4. Damn you owners! 5. ... ---- I think the court of public opinion will handle this whole situation properly. Joe Jackson is still nowhere near the Hall of Fame, I'd expect Bonds to never make it as well.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-08 13:20:54 +0000

I see that some blame can be made of the owners, but they are not the most vile villans. The players could have taken the high road, even if they got black-listed for NOT taking steroids. Did the owners ever require players to take them? Is there a paper trial of that at all? My love of baseball dwindled from '93 to '97 because of college (and the disaster that was my college team), and I cannot honestly say if the Sosa/Maguire race of '98 helped me get back into baseball, but living in Boston during the Pedro era certainly helped.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-03-08 13:26:24 +0000

I don't think the court of public opinion will prevail. This rolls back to my point about the owners. Bonds isn't the issue. Steroids are the issue, and Bonds is the idiot who went to far and gets to be the scapegoat. Baseball has knowingly exploited players and their steroid use for as long as they could get away with it, and now they get to pretend to be appalled by it and start to fix the problem. Home runs generate revenue. I'm not going to get all teary eyed and sympathetic with the man, since he's a guilty fucktard, but Barry Bonds is the victim here. Baseball exploited him, and now they will exile him, and their gains on his (and his peers) behalf will remain intact, even in the court of public opinion.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-08 13:43:08 +0000

Bonds is a victim, because he wanted to be on steriods, just as the fan who looks up to Bonds is also a victim, but I'm not sure said fan wants to be on steriods....

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-03-08 13:46:31 +0000

Players seek glory and juiced players were getting the glory. If you reward cheaters, then you are sanctioning/encouraging cheating. Duke: I know a life of crime has led me to this sorry fate, and yet, I blame society. Society made me what I am. Otto: That's bullshit. You're a white suburban punk just like me. Duke: Yeah, but it still hurts.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-08 14:20:27 +0000

Bonds will definitely do himself in a la Palmerio whether or not he is made an example of. By "made an example" Im assuming you guys mean legal action - please correct me if I am wrong. In American society, we made an example of OJ even though the legal system was distracted by Cochran's histrionics. Bonds's word and rep will go below sea level forever which is a pretty big punishment. The only other thing that should actively be done is to either asterik his records or goose egg them completely. Last year, I pretty much used to subscribe to the Bonds "steroids cant make you hit a baseball" argument - owners want $$$$$$ of fans filling up stadiums to see high HR #'s - but after thinking about it more, it really is pretty icky, esp of the owners.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-08 14:22:44 +0000

Hey kid: you wanna make yrself a quick $10 USD?

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-03-08 15:05:48 +0000

Wipe it all out- erase the shit.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-03-08 15:13:37 +0000

How do you wipe it out? If you wipe Bonds off the books, then McGuire is the record holder? Sounds fishy to me. So do you wipe McGuire? Do you take away Bonds' MVPs? If so do you take away Giambi's? There's a lot of sludge, and Bonds is only one player. We need to indict baseball itself as the fraud here. Bonds is just the guy who was too dumb or too arrogant to make the charade plausible. I think the solution is to:

1. Ban Bonds from baseball. Scapegoat and all.
2. Put an asterisk on everything that has happened in baseball since the strike in 94. This includes World Series titles.
3. Create a drug testing policy that makes the NFL and NCAA look like a bunch of junkies.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-08 16:03:35 +0000

Wipe Them Out - All of Them!

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-03-08 16:20:01 +0000

Here's how you wipe it out: No asterisk, no record. On the home run list, it's Aaron-Ruth-Mays. Runners up get shiny new MVP awards. Putting the blame on an organization sounds good in theory, but no way is Selig going to admit that his legacy is fundamentally flawed. Thus far, Giambi's the only guy who has admitted juicing.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-12 21:03:35 +0000

Well, the public certainly doesn't like Bonds...