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Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-03 23:16:14 +0000

I will cut your face!

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-08-04 01:29:37 +0000

Posted by theduane on 2006-08-04 01:49:13 +0000

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-04 11:18:49 +0000

I will put you in a cocoon of horror.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-04 12:04:46 +0000

I hate to piss on the campfire here, but I find as a motorist like 9 out of 10 uses of the horn to be unecessary. How many cases of road rage have been caused by horn leaners? Every once and a while they can be used to grab someone's attention to prevent an accident, but usually its the guy /gal that feels the need to use it the nanosecond someone doesn't accelerate on a green light, like the fifth of a second later the horn blower arrives at their destination won't be good enough. Call me a hippie, but can't we all try to be a little nicer in traffic to one another? Cutting People's faces in other ways since 1974, MF DU

Posted by G lib on 2006-08-04 12:19:52 +0000

here here! and another thing... From Honk If You Love Noise Pollution-- By Novella Carpenter "Never ever, never use the horn as a doorbell. Not only is that loud and annoying, it is rude to the person you are picking up. Use your cell phone and call them, or haul your ass out of the car to knock." And adding to that, DON'T HONK WHEN THERE IS A PEDESTRIAN RIGHT NEXT TO YOUR CAR! Drives me nuts.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-04 12:22:33 +0000

No no no. The horn is rarely used as a safety measure, but I see it used there more often than in the nanosecond after a light turns green case... The purpose of the horn is to inform someone that they are acting like an idiot. If you think that most horn use is road ragers just getting it out, that idiot is most likely to be you.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-04 12:39:32 +0000

How about a new feature with a light indicating "My bad - thanks for bearing with me"? Or as 10 D puts it, "I'm an idiot - please honk at me because I deserve it and it does oh so much to rectify the problem at hand"

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-04 12:44:56 +0000

No no no. If there were a "my bad" indicator, we wouldn't have to honk at you. The honking is for the people who may not know they're being an idiot, perhaps to help them from doing it again. Like giving me the fucking little wave to go at a 4 way stop sign.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-04 12:53:09 +0000

I sense much anger in you, my young padawan.

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-04 12:59:06 +0000

Hippie! Nice is a two-way street. If someone is generally making an obstacle of himself while gabbing on the cell phone, or while waiting to make an illegal left-turn, or while traveling at 50mph in the left lane on the Pike, or while double-parking then he's being a selfish asshole. Why should I want to be nice to him? Shouldn't assholes be called on their bad behavior? I don't honk at people who don't accelerate immediately. If they don't notice the green light, maybe a friendly "beep beep", but not a prolonged honk.

Posted by tgl on 2006-08-04 13:04:45 +0000

Since I only drive at night, I use the highbeams to alert the car in front of me that the light is green. I give 'em a 5 sec. grace period.

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-04 13:06:15 +0000

Honking also serves as an intimidator for people who *know* they're being an asshole. Publicly calling out people for being assholes sometimes works.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-04 13:09:40 +0000

Tommy: I sense much anger in you, my young padawan.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-04 13:11:33 +0000

I'm sure I've crossed paths with you on the road. And I'm sure I've honked, MFing MF DU

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-04 13:12:19 +0000

Cant we just let other people be assholes and let it stop there? Calling them on it rarely if ever makes them less of an asshole or enlightens them to not be an asshole in the future. embrace your anger in the car. buy a copy of Slayer's Reign in Blood, keep it in the car and put it in the next time you are wronged instead of using the horn. Give it a chance - it wont disappoint.

Posted by pamsterdam on 2006-08-04 13:30:31 +0000

Quoth the hubby: Tell MF DU that I back him up. And I want to punch the lights out of people who use the horn too much. I agree. The horn is to be used rarely, for a brief burst, for getting attention. "Be careful, don't back up while I'm right behind you!" for example. Horn-leaning is for jerks.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-04 13:58:54 +0000

Says the guy with too many wheels on his BMW.

Posted by Travis on 2006-08-04 14:00:53 +0000

over here we dont call them horns, we call them Italian brake pedals.

Posted by pamsterdam on 2006-08-04 14:42:39 +0000

Chortle.

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-04 15:34:11 +0000

I'll only horn-lean at people who are driving with no regard for anyone but themselves. I don't think that makes me a jerk. I suppose I would agree that people who lean on their horns for no good reason are being jerks (a guy 10D and I work with who drives a hatchback comes to mind). But it seems 9 times out of 10, the receiver of the horn-lean is doing something totally inappropriate. So, sorry, if someone's going to double-park on a one-lane street because they think their time and convenince is more important that the others they block... then the horn-blower is not the one being the jerk. Unless by "horn-leaning is for jerks" you mean "direct your horn-leaning only at jerks".... then I agree.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-04 15:59:07 +0000

Re: Double parking: The Side Of Us We Don't Like To See Sounds like a symptom of city life that won't go away by honking a horn.

Posted by Miriam on 2006-08-04 16:35:55 +0000

Since moving back to the South, I use my horn with decided restraint. When I first got here, I was still in Boston horn mode and made a couple of enemies on the road. Not so much rage as dissapproval. People here don't really honk much, they just glare at you as they pass you in their pick-up with the full gun rack and deer on the front bumper. And smile with their gap teeth. Actually, when I was at the doc (which happens to be in a local hospital building) on Wednesday, I passed many people who were not ironically wearing their overalls or enormous jeans with wide suspenders. I may have even seen a piece of straw in one man's mouth. What I think is rude is hitting someone's car in a hospital/doc's office parking lot without leaving your phone number...which also happened on Wednesday.

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-04 16:38:05 +0000

I think she hits the nail right on the head there. Imagine a one-lane road with a car blocking the lane while the driver waits for someone to come out of a house. I pull up behind. The driver doesn't notice or doesn't care that I'm there. I give a quick "beep beep" on the horn. The appropriate thing for the driver to do is.... 1) Pull into a driveway 2) Pull 3 houses up where there is an empty parking spot 3) Circle the block 4) Refuse to move and indignantly question why people are in "such a hurry all the time" 5) Call me a dirty jew and claim I am responsible for all the wars in the world. If you answered 1,2 or 3, then I have no problem with you. If you answered 4, then I'm sorry but you're being an asshole. You're shifting your problem (lack of ultra-convenient parking) onto others. If I honk my horn at you at this point, then there's a decent chance that you'll move. Even better, perhaps next time you'll choose 1 2 or 3. (If you choose 5, then I will refuse to see your next movie)

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-04 17:42:08 +0000

6) Watch, awestruck, as a 1971 Plymouth Satellite demonstrates how its engine and bumper are more powerful than my tires and parking brake.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-04 18:31:18 +0000

7) both of you are feeding on each other in a vicious circle

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-04 18:35:03 +0000

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK!

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-04 18:40:25 +0000

Miriam hits the nail on the head. I know I am taking things to extremes, but bear with me for a second: While you might be the most righteous driver in the world (you have the right of way, the person who has double parked you in a single lane road, the person in front of you is asleep at the switch, on a cell phone etc) with every right to blow the horn, call people out on their errors,etc: Is it worth at best raising yr blood pressure, being irritated over something you cant change or fix, or at worse having the other person chasing after you and turning your head into a Jackson Pollack painting ala Marvin in Pulp Fiction? People are crazy. you have no idea about the other person. Life is too short. I opt for the Slayer cd, sorry. (Rock N' Roll Ain't Noise Pollution)

Posted by pamsterdam on 2006-08-04 18:40:26 +0000

I may be wrong - and I'm sure you believe that I am - but I do think that anyone who drives like an asshole and then corrects their behavior following a HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK! would just as readily have corrected their behavior following a beep beep!, since there is a difference between acting like an asshole and being an asshole. Anyone can act like an asshole, and normal people will react to a beep! beep! and realise that their driving etiquette needs adjustment, but true assholes won't do shit for anyone else, regardless of how long the HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK! goes on for.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-04 19:05:16 +0000

Nope. Beep! Beep! is a great way to externally clear your throat to other drivers. It's like "<ahem> Excuse me? Did you see me here? Thank you." That's great for many situations. The leaner, on the other hand, is good for two types of drivers. a) The asshole, to whom this says, "Hey asshole, you're being and asshole and I know you're being an asshole and now you know I know you're being an asshole so knock it the fuck off, asshole." b) The idiot, to whom this says, "Hey idiot, learn how to drive" The latter, is less effective, unfortunately, however more important. These people don't know they are driving like assholes. They are completely unaware of what they have done wrong, and maybe, just maybe, they may think about it and learn something. Wonder why some asshole just leaned on it at them, and perhaps realize they weren't supposed to be doing whatever it was they were doing. Unfortunately, most of these retards are so fucking clueless, that they think the leaners are just assholes suffering from road rage.

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-04 20:45:02 +0000

Let me make an analogy. Suppose Mr. Right, Mr. Reasonable, Mr. Idiot and Mr. Asshole go to a college hockey game. They get to the arena, decide that they don't like their seats and move down to the front row. Then, my friends and I show up and find them in our seats. You might expect the conversation to go like this: Scene 1: Arrival on the scene Tommy: Hi... Mr. Right: Hi. Oh, are these your seats? I'm sorry; I'll move back to my own seat. Mr's. Reasonable, Idiot and Asshole: [silence] Scene 2: "Beep-Beep" Tommy: I'm sorry, these seats are taken. Mr. Reasonable: Oh, I'm sorry; I'll move back to my own seat. Mr. Idiot: What makes you think you're so important? I got here first! Mr. Asshole: I'll sit wherever the fuck I want. Scene 3: HOOONNNNNKKKKK Tommy: No, I didn't call in three months ago and pay extra for season tickets so that I could sit in the back. You're going to have to get out of my seats, now. Mr. Idiot: I don't know what you're talking about... I was here first!! Mr. Asshole: Fuck you. Now, replace sitting in someone's else's seat with, say, blocking an intersection by stopping halfway through in traffic. Sometimes even the idiots and assholes will move. I will also say that less than a month ago, my horn alerted a cop to an illegal-left-turn traffic-backer-up asshole (not idiot) in Central Sq. Offender was pulled over. I see your point about not getting mad about things you can't change... but sometimes honking really works... and it doesn't necessarily mean I'm mad. And, it certainly doesn't make me a jerk. And, plus, I'm usually listening to Slayer already anyhow.

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-04 20:47:15 +0000

There are also degrees of assholism and idiocy. Sometimes a leaner causes a bulb to go off in the head of the mild idiot, or causes a mild asshole to feel a little shame.

Posted by theduane on 2006-08-04 21:16:52 +0000

theduane generally honks his horn at shitty drivers to amuse himself. there are not too many things that are more funny than honking at a honky who is driving like an a-hole, and then the honky gives theduane "thefinger" or "thedirtylook" or "theuniversalsignforblowme", and then theduane laughs out loud, not as in "lol", but as in laughs out loud and continues to drive. the a-hole continues to drive, and both parties have won.

Posted by theduane on 2006-08-04 21:17:40 +0000

we haven't seen any topic get this many replies in a long while.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-04 23:06:48 +0000

Then you go to da box for 2 minutes by yourself... and you feel shame... then you get free.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-04 23:39:17 +0000

I will come out and say my great interest in this topic is because over time I went from a "nice" / "reasonable" driver to one that has road rage tendencies (yelling in the car, giving the finger, even punching my steering wheel once...) I don't know why the horn thing heats me up and I wish I could get rid of my emotional reaction to it. Maybe as I am older I have more responsibilities and less patience? Sounds like a cop out, but as you get older and wake up with a "to-do" list tatooed to your brain, it is easy to freak about unimportant/immaterial side events that occur while getting from point a to point B. My goal here is to try learn why I get mad, deal with it in a less destructive way and hopefully be part of solutions in future conflicts and not part of the problem. Tommy brings up a lot of excellent points: a) Tom Arya, Kerry King, Dave Lombardo et. al are not to be fucked with b)Conflict also won't go away by just avoiding it c)He is (I wholehertedly agree)certainly NOT a jerk, nor is 10 D for that matter. I don't know if we've reached 100% common ground here as horns still bug the $#%#$^% out of me, but I see where you are coming from, and I respect it.

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-05 01:34:13 +0000

Allow me then to conclude with the story of my favorite traffic confrontation. This happened about 3 years ago. I was riding my bike outbound on Beacon St at Audubon Circle. Moved into the left lane to take a left on Park Dr. Stopped at red light (no other vehicles at this point). Dinky broken-down hatchback of some sort (Escort?) pulls up behind me and leans on the horn. I look up and confirm the light is still red, turn around and give him the "WTF?" look. He honks again. I'm not sure what he wants me to do, so I point up at the red light with a mystified look on my face. He honks again and gives me the finger. Light turns green. He attempts to zoom past me, but his engine is not quite up to it, and he creeps past about 2mph faster than me. He yells "hey, fuck you, man" as he passes and flips me off again. I'm still confused, but now I'm also mad. So, because his car is such a shitbox, I am able to catch up with him. I'm actually tailgating the guy with my bike, and leaning down to dangle my middle finger in his hatchback window. He opens his sun roof and thrusts a triumphant middle finger skyward as he putters off. I still have no idea at all what he was mad at me about. Freak.

Posted by pamsterdam on 2006-08-05 08:32:40 +0000

Well, I didn't really mean that our friends who are horn-leaners are jerks. Not in a some-stranger-shoved-me-out-of-the-way-while-cutting-me-in-line "you jerk!" kind of way, but in a my-cheeky-friend-took-the-last-samosa "jerk!" kind of way. Flagrant use of the work "jerk" - I know. I just know, for myself, that when I receive a "beep beep!" my response is either, "Oh, I'm terribly sorry, I wasn't thinking," or "Oh, I do apologise, but this is actually an emergency situation, I hope you understand." And when I receive a "HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK!" my response is invariably "Fuck off you stupid jerk - a simple 'beep beep' would have sufficed. As punishment for your unbelieveable rudeness I will continue doing this for far longer than I had originally intended to!" Petty? Yes. Potentialy jerk-like behavior? Sure. But HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK behind me at your peril. Oh, and MF DU? An old boyfriend once ripped his steering wheel off its column in a rage. So I reckon you're pretty well-adjusted.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-05 09:46:48 +0000

OK, so, first, we all know that I am a jerk, so, don't worry about any insinuation. Also, most of you have met my wife, and know that she is not a jerk at all, but, actually a sweet, relatively quiet person, who happens to spend a lot of time riding in a car with this jerk. Also, some of you have been to Natick and more specifically on Rt 9, which is a traffic disaster. Right by our workplace, (for tommy and the wife and I) is one of my least favorite intersections in the world, in which they took what was once a rotary, and plowed Rt 9 through the middle of it, and then left the rotary like wings as jughandles for U turns and left turns, and then topped it off with a confusing array of poorly timed lights and yield signs. Due to the locations of our work, home and daycare, we go through this intersection, in the same direction, on the way to work, and the way home. Needless to say, we are rather familiar with how it is supposed to work, why it sucks, why other people don't get how it works, and a lot of the ways other people will think it works. You can't get through this intersection without someone doing something that warrants, at least a beep beep and, most often, a Pollocking. A few moons ago, as you all know, I was laid up for a bit from my accident, and my sweet little wife had to drive every day. I imagine there's a bad influence from me, but she's become a leaner. Big time. She doesn't even wait for someone to cut her off, when she gets near the hot spots she just starts leaning, assuming someone out there deserves it, so she can pay attention to driving. I'm very proud.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-05 11:44:24 +0000

chortle inducing. Is it too late in the scheme of things to find out who invented rotaries (or the person's ancestors), take them out back, and shoot them? Right after alewife, there is a rotary by a water works dept, the 99 restaurant and a shopping plaze with Newbury Comics, Dunkin Donuts and I believe a co-op supermarket and movie theater across the street... anyway, my wife's 94 Jetta DIED in the middle of that rotary with absolutely no way for me to move my car. I had never been the recipient of so many particular fingers and straight up tude from strangers in my whole life. I was never so happy to see a tow truck or get a ride in one since. I didnt even have any metal (thrash, death, black, Scandinavian, or the like) for protection either. Come to think of it maybe 10D was honking @ Mf'ing MF DU that day :) (Hey TGL is it too late to change my handle to MF'infg MF DU lol)...

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-05 11:50:52 +0000

And Now, time for some David Lynch advice: Traffic -"It's not one bit pleasant to be tailgated." -"If someone wants to come into traffic, we should let them come in. Instantly, you feel better, the other person feels good, and it uplifts the entire driving environment." -"Well, there's a scene in the film [Lost Highway] that has something to do with rules of the road. And it just strikes me that we could talk about what's happening in Los Angeles and maybe many places in the world: People are going through red lights. It's a big problem. And I understand the frustration of the light turning yellow and the cars in front are going ahead. But it's extremely important to stop at a red light. I always stop, because if we all want to get there quicker and safer we have to obey the rules."

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-05 13:10:31 +0000

Holy crap. I had a car that broke down there, too. 1979 Sunbird (aka "The Funbird"). I was 16. In my case, the traffic was moving slowly enough that I could push my car at just about the same speed as it would have gone had I been driving it. So, relatively little problem pulling it into one of the lots and running to Alewife to catch a train instead. We were on our way to see Government Issue at the Rat. When we returned, I found out that my firewall had collapsed, severing all the wires going inside as well as the clutch cable.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-05 17:38:46 +0000

Rotaries aren't _that_ bad, when used in light enough traffic areas with evenly balanced feed roads. The problem is the ridiculous things that they replace them with when they don't feel like putting enough effort into figuring out what would be better. I've never broke down on that particular rotary, but tgl and I closed the Tappan Zee bridge once. Don't think we got a lot of honking though, not that I remember.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-05 20:12:23 +0000

I have a good friend who lives near the Tappan Zee bridge in Tarrytown NY (near/in the Hamlet of Sleepy Hollow, yes, the Ichabod Crane S. Hollow) Wow - Tommy saw Government Issue! Very Jealous... Really looking forward to new J Robbins / Channels later this month.

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-08-06 05:38:16 +0000

Y'all need to read a book on the bus and mellow the fuck out.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-06 08:59:43 +0000

The more you drive, the less intelligent you are.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-06 12:54:27 +0000

See, that was my initial reaction too (a la I sense much anger in you , my young padawan) Mellowing the fuck out is absolutely my goal of this whole thread.

Posted by G lib on 2006-08-07 12:54:18 +0000

tommy-- I'm with you on the honking at bikers. It's FUCKING RUDE!! I think it's possibly worse for girls-- sometimes you can't tell whether or not someone is honking for you to get out of the way, or if they just like the way you look in your helmet. Neither is pleasant. So I feel completely justified in being an asshole back to people when riding my bike. (so long as I'm following the rules) I have been known to scream, tailgate, get directly in front of at a light, speak calmly into someone's open window about traffic laws, and use all sorts of hand gestures, to get my point across. I think that it's safer to be a 'force to be reckoned with' on your bicycle.

Posted by tommy on 2006-08-07 13:47:34 +0000

I try to follow traffic laws almost always when I'm on my bike. When I don't, it's when I've judged that I won't be inconveniencing anyone else. Example: I'll stop at all red lights and wait for green.... but if an all-direction "walk" light comes on, then I might treat that as a green. Silver lining to being honked at is that at least you know the driver sees you, and won't run you over. It's totally safer to behave mostly like a car, and be as aggressive as you need to be in order to make sure that you're safe. Example: on a really skinny 2-lane-per-side road, I usually just take up the whole right lane.... cars can pass me in the other lane if they want, but they can't squeeze me into the curb. If they honk, I give them the "be my guest" arm wave and direct them to the passing lane. It's not a paradise out there, but I will say that there seems to be more respect out there that there used to be. It's been a really long time since I got a "get off the road" from a guy wearing a white "COCKS" hat. It's most annoying to see the stoppable cycling techniques that so many people have. 10D may be upset at me, but I gave the fucking little go-ahead wave at a 4-way stop sign last Friday. Lady got there first, but didn't go. I could see in her face that she thought I was going to blow through the stop sign, then probably ride on the wrong side of the street without a helmet or light in the middle of the night while veering on and off the sidewalk. Sad part is, I don't blame her.... So I felt I had to signal to tell her "Yes, believe it or not, I actually follow traffic laws, and will be yielding to your right of way. So, go ahead."

Posted by G lib on 2006-08-07 13:55:01 +0000

tommy-- you and I have the same exact riding style.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-08-07 14:02:03 +0000

The little wave, to remind someone that they do indeed have the right of way and you are not going until they take it, is completely tolerable. The little wave, to indicate to someone that you are giving them your right of way, is not OK. Right of way, like your soul, is not yours to give away.

Posted by Miriam on 2006-08-07 14:49:39 +0000

I leaned over the weekend because of a reckless weaver. I try not to honk at teen drivers because they scare easily and may have just made an unintentional error.

Posted by Miriam on 2006-08-07 14:58:26 +0000

Don't know about that. I drive every day and am feeding my mind daily with very good fiction. I think smart people obey traffic laws.

Posted by mr. mister on 2006-08-07 15:56:20 +0000

HONK IF YOU'RE HORNY

Posted by Honar the librarian on 2006-08-08 10:22:29 +0000

I am generally in agreement with 10d here--especially the asshats who stop for pedestrians in 4 lane roads when nobody else is planning on stopping--and that goes doubly for those who then get mad at you for not graciously accepting their wave and walking into the other oncoming traffic... I do think that the right of way rule is slightly bendy if you are the first person at a light and see that the first person opposite of you has their left turn signal on, and has ten cars after them, as do you. Quality Square is one intersection that comes to mind for this particular exception. One has to be very vigilant, however, because complete jackholes will try and coast in along after on the left turn. Generally jackholes without turn signals.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-08-08 13:30:21 +0000

can we get a giant photo of David Lynch at that intersection please?