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<a href=" http://wineatgrocerystores.com/news_100306.php">MADD</a> feels that having wine at grocery stores will somehow make them less MADD. Having more liquor around would probably create more acidents. see below. However I wouldn't have minded picking up some blush chablis at Market Basket this morning.
A little prohibition may go a long way toward preventing the harmful effects of the Devil's drink, according to a recent study. When "blue laws," remnants from our Puritan past that ban Sunday alcohol sales, were repealed in New Mexico in 1995, Sunday traffic crashes increased by 29 percent, and traffic-related fatalities increased by 42 percent. Fifteen states still have similar Sunday bans, but the alcohol industry is putting pressure on the states to repeal them. "Today's study finds that the Sunday ban saved lives and prevented hundreds of injuries and fatalities from alcohol-related crashes," said study co-author Garnett McMillan. The study does not appear to address the consequences of the other popular kind of blue laws: those that prohibit Sunday car sales. Well, obviously, if we want to reduce car accidents we should ban car, rather than alcohol, sales.
If the liquor stores want to stay competitive, they will have to build a niche for themselves.
MADD siding with ANY alcohol sales at all puts a bad taste in my mouth - its like listening to Pete Corrs telling me to please drink responsibly - I'm so sure the Corrs corporation will suddenly stop selling their product if people act irresponsible.
The article brings up a good point, maybe we should stop car sales on Sundays, not wine. What are we doing to slow down automobile sales? Clearly not enough.
Wine is food, and more competition will bring me better selection and lower prices.
Allowing wine in supermarkets under the guise of free market concerns is entirely hypocritical. While I may enjoy the results, I think we are further muddying the signal we send to youth about how to treat alcohol. Is it or isn't it a drug?
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Over in NY state last weekend, I was not impressed with the selection at the Stop 'n' Shop. Can't say if $6.16 for a twelve pack of Genessee Cream Ale was a good price or not. I did pass by a perfectly good liquor store in Rhinebeck, knowing that I needed to buy food at the very least. So, yeah, I'm a hypocritical consumer, I know.
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By designating a marketplace for alcohol sales --just as we designate marketplaces for a range of other products, via zoning laws-- we maintain a healthy market which provides the consumer with choices not readily available if every retail location may sell the product. If the result of this change is that smaller liquor stores cannot compete with larger grocery chains and leave the marketplace, then we will see a _reduction_ of choice in the marketplace.
If Wal-Mart sold everything, then we'd only have one place to shop. Is that increased competition?
Hear, Hear
(Or Should I say Beer, Beer)?
The sooner we can kill all these blue laws, the better. I love in Massachusetts how some grocery stores can be open on major holidays like Christmas and some can't. It makes no sense when yr baking up a storm for all yr loved ones and you cant run to the grocery store for a stick of butter or something.
I want alcohol available in grocery stores for both the convienience and to slay the hipocracy that it matters where you buy it in the first place. I dont want to vote yes for the grocery stores necessarily because the selection or prices in a grocery store are better than a packie.
As far as the increasing selection argument for grocery stores: If you just want a few sam adams or rolling rocks for a football game or something - not having to drive to extra stores or pretending like you couldn't just go to a bar or get alcohol across a state border could be helpful. I dont think grocery stores want to multiply the plethora of possibilities for beverage connosieurs, they just want to offer convienience to their customers.
If I want John Courage or Old Speckled Hen or something -I am totally in the mood for a treasure hunt and I will seek the good stuff out.
On the grocery store pricing argument, I think you are screwed either way. No matter where you go in Mass (Liquor Store/ grocery Store), you're still going to have to pay the fucktard "incentive" deposit of which Millions of dollars go unclaimed every year.
God I miss New Hampshire sometimes...
I probably shouldn't even mention this last thing, but it is eating at me:
Are people really serious about suggesting that our government should discourage people from buying cars? yikes.
Not serious, but just exposing the hypocracy. Yet, fewer cars on the streets would be a good thing; just ask cyclists, the residents of Chicago, and Mother Earth.
Yes, it's not entirely free market, yes, it's a proctection for the package stores, but there is nothing hypocritical about controlling a market in order to produce beneficial outcomes: A slightly higher chance that liquour stores will have the wherewithal to provide choices that are not demanded by your average supermarket wine buyer.
No, no.
_More_ of them import more expensive/unusual products. A package store will not stay in business, if I can find their brands in a supermarket.
If we could get our cheap-ass wine at the Market Basket in Chelsea, we would save a bunch of gas, but otherwise, we've already broken all laws they want to change, blue or otherwise.
If I wanted to drink and drive on a Sunday, that would be really easy for me.
Has anyone noticed that you can't find seaglass anymore? I'd say it's working.
And keeps all of the 4" Chinese ladies in the money, downtown, and (strangely enough) in Eastie.
I completely agree with the above statement - but I do not agree that we will get to that end result by creating laws and artificial "incentives" to get there.
I get the impression that many progressive politicians and lawmakers think they are trying to steer us in a beneficial direction by implementing laws or controls that are for our "own good". I applaud the ideology if they are truly looking to make the world a better place, but why is it that these folks think that they have a corner on the market of knowing what is for my own good?
How far off from a nanny state are we? Say for the sake of argument we did have national healthcare. How long would it be before we'd give blood samples to monitor our cholesterol before we could get cardiac treatment? "You ate too many french fries - no healthcare for you!"
This "I know what's best for you" line of political thought comes off as very arrogant IMHO. George Will had a really good point in a column I read a while ago: Look at the title of the bestseller by Thomas Frank: <i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-America/dp/B000FTWB3K/sr=8-1/qid=1160677283/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4169066-3251241?ie=UTF8&s=books">What's The Matter With Kansas</i></a>.
Isn't it kind of prejudiced as well as arrogant to imply that a whole state of people have something wrong with them?
Wouldn't a better and more constructive question be (although admittedly not a very good book title)What solutions and proposals can progressive candidates offer to America to make sure we dont lose to rabid neocons this time?
Please tell Mitt Romney that.
It's not like the grocery stores went into business in order to sell wine. We aren't really screwing with the business model by refusing to allow them to sell one kind of product. I see minimal --if any-- benefit to consumers, a monetary gain for large chain supermarkets, and only deteriment to smaller liquor stores.
<b>Boston Globe August 14, 2005</b>
Is it still worth it for a nickel?
Return rate declining for bottle, can deposits
Bruce Mohl, Globe Staff
Is the bottle deposit law half empty or half full?
That's the question that came to mind last week after the state Revenue Department released preliminary figures showing another drop in bottle and can returns.
The figures indicate consumers returned and recovered their nickel deposits on 65.7 percent of the 2.2 billion bottles and cans they purchased during the fiscal year that ended June 30. That's the lowest percentage since the bottle deposit law took effect in 1983 and way off the peak of 87 percent in 1995.
The low return rate means consumers bought more than 766 million beer and soft-drink bottles and cans last year but never returned them to claim the nickel deposit. <b><s>More than $35 million in unclaimed deposits ended up in the state's pocket</b></s> <i>MF DU's emphasis</i>], but what happened to all those unredeemed bottles and cans?
Under the half-empty view of the bottle deposit law, many of those containers ended up as litter or thrown in the trash and eventually buried in landfills or burned in incinerators.
Under the half-full view of the law, a significant portion of those unredeemed containers, maybe 10 to 15 percent, went into curbside recycling bins where they were recycled but not redeemed.
''For convenience sake or confusion's sake, people are putting redeemables out with normal recycling," said Jim Garrity, a liaison to municipalities in Romney's Office of Commonwealth Development.
Garrity said he has no documentation for the shift to curbside recycling, but he said the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming. He and environmental officials in the Romney administration say many consumers drop their cans and bottles in the recycling bin because they aren't interested in storing, sorting, and returning containers for the nickel deposit. After all, a nickel is worth half as much today as it was in 1983.
''People would rather do it that way than go through the trouble of redeeming it themselves," said Corbie Kump, a spokeswoman for Romney's environmental affairs office, who says that's what she does.
The Romney officials also say the bottle deposit law is too confusing. The current law covers carbonated drinks and beer, but exempts a slew of noncarbonated beverages that have gained tremendous popularity over the last decade, including waters, juices, teas, and sports drinks. Since it's too confusing to figure out which containers go back to the store and which ones go for curbside recycling, Romney officials say consumers are simply throwing them all in curbside bins.
In New York, which has its own bottle deposit law, some local officials say they have firsthand knowledge that consumers are dropping redeemable containers in recycle bins.
James Hogan, recycling director for Westchester County, said each year about 10 tons of aluminum cans are dumped in curbside bins. He said the county turns the cans over to the Westchester Association for Retarded Citizens, which sorts and redeems them. He said redeemable plastic and glass containers also come into his recycling plant, but it's too expensive to sort those out.
''With our increasingly busy lives and the ever-declining value of a nickel, I think there's more and more an inclination to use the recycling bin," Hogan said. ''No one wants to make a separate trip to the store."
Pat Franklin, executive director of the Container Recycling Institute in Arlington, Va., said container recycling rates have been on a decade long slide nationally. On average, 35 percent of containers are recycled nationally, but Franklin said that average is as high as it is only because of the much higher recycling rates in the 11 states with bottle deposit laws. The group includes all the New England states except Rhode Island, plus New York, Delaware, Iowa, Michigan, Hawaii, and Oregon.
Franklin says the declining redemption rate in Massachusetts is cause for concern not just because bottles and cans are being landfilled but because containers recycled under the bottle deposit law are worth more than those recycled through curbside programs. She said the commingling that occurs in municipal recycling programs taints the end product, making it less valuable to companies that reuse the material.
To increase the state's redemption rate, the most obvious option would be to raise the deposit to a dime, giving consumers a greater financial incentive to return their empties. Michigan has a 10-cent deposit and its redemption rate has hovered around 90 percent.
But neither Romney nor state lawmakers seem interested in upping the deposit, which is politically unpopular. Instead, they want to expand the bottle deposit law to include water, juice, tea, and sports drinks. In Connecticut and New York, bottle deposit law expansions gained some traction this year, passing one branch of the legislature but not the other.
Critics of the bottle deposit law would like to go in the opposite direction. Christopher Flynn, the president of the Massachusetts Food Association, which represents supermarkets across the state, said the declining redemption rate means consumers are either throwing away their containers or recycling them elsewhere. He said it makes more sense to do away with the bottle deposit law and focus resources on expanding curbside recycling. ''We're spending an inordinate amount of money to recycle 3 percent of the state's waste system," he said.
Phillip Sego, the coordinator of the bottle bill task force at the Sierra Club, said it makes no sense to scrap the law. He said the law should be expanded and backed with more money.
The state used to spend the money it receives from unclaimed deposits on environmental projects, but three years ago during a budget crisis the money was diverted into the state's general fund. Now that the state is healthier financially, Sego said, the money should again be used to promote recycling.
''Recycling rates in general are, unfortunately, falling, but nobody is suggesting that we simply give up on it," Sego said. ''Our society must find ways to improve recycling in every way possible. We simply have no choice."
So we decided that it would be in your best interest if we put you somewhere
Where you could get the help that you need.
And I go:
Wait, what do you mean, what are you talking about, we decided!?
My best interest?! How can you know what my best interest is?
How can you say what my best interest is? What are you trying to say, I'm crazy?
When I went to your schools, I went to your churches,
I went to your institutional learning facilities?! So how can you say I'm crazy?
Note that this tax would even apply to things that weren't recyclable, hopefully encouraging purchases of object that are recyclable rather than not.
I know that the technical details would make it impossible to have this apply to everything, but a nice first step would maybe be bottles/cans filled with Gatorade and juice, milk jugs, etc.
There is no incentive to go to the grocery store with a bunch of bottles filled with swill spilling in my trunk unless I am going to buy a $2 forty of Schlitz. Which is why they should sell beer at the grocery store. hot damn what a deal!
If I understand the law correctly, it prohibits one entity (person or corporation) from selling such products in more than three locations. So, anyone can open a supermarket that sells wine (or presumably a clothing store that sells wine)... you just can't open four of them. I wish we had a similar law for things like jeans and circular saws and mattresses.
Given that alcohol is currently the most abused drug out there (clearly!), and that alcohol misuse is responsible for more injury/death/crime than that of any other drug out there, and that it personally bums me out that 95% of people my age are so creatively bankrupt that they can't possibly imagine any way to have fun that doesn't involve drinking.... and given that I love to stick it to The Man, especially when it benefits small-time businesses.... I am torn on this ballot question.
If I were The Decider, I'd want <b>everyone</b> to lose. I want it to be <b>less</b> convenient to get alcohol, plus I want large chains (eg supermarket chains) to stop being viable financially, and package stores to go out of business.
The difference between non-redeemables and redeemables is ONLY whether or not the drink is carbonated.
I don't care *how* it gets done, incentives, disincentives, or whatever, but the lack of recycling/re-using in the US is abominable.
MF DU-- got a suggestion to make people recycle?
<img src="http://www.songlyricscollection.com/lyrics/s/slapshot/step-on-it/step-on-it.jpg" />
Hate to say it, but once people can buy booze at supermarkets, they will.
You can buy it all in a liquor store, but no bottle openers.
You can buy beer at gas stations and convenience stores here, too.
There used to be a drive-through liquor store in Knoxville when I was growing up.
Ah, the good old days. I miss the 1980s.
Your beer argument as you pointed out makes no sense.
Sadly, this has been this case for a while. Even Jesus brought bread and wine to the table. Tough battle to fight though: Cookouts, BBQ's, dinner parties, holidays, concerts... and after all, we do need food and drink to survive as a species; that and sex and sleep, all of which tend to be fun.
We could also raise the bottle deposit, as posted by the Onion, to 12 cents. Funny because it's true.
The last party I went to involved fresh-baked treats, a live dj, a rather extensive decoration job, and goodie-bags. The guy had even placed scuba gear in his bathtub in case anyone got inspired during a toilet break.
Too many people think alcohol makes things (including themselves) more interesting. It is, as you say, like any other sustenance - food, drink, sex, sleep. Some is good, some is bad, and not one is a quick fix for "boring".
I never needed a reward to do it - I just did it because thats what my parents taught me to do.
You can't make someone be a good or a socially responsible person - they are or they aren't.
White trashua had curbside- but they were so militant about what they would take and what they wouldn't that a lot of people didn't bother. It took me almost 2 years of my 5 year tenure there to get the right item in the right bin.
Barring a <b>good</b> curbside pickup program, I think drive-through centers where you can do your own depositing and seperating of recyclables is the way to go.
Around my parts all the grocery stores have <b>broken</b> automated machines that are outside (probably so the mgmt can keep that side of the sticky, messy, and nickle and diming business as far away from the rest of their more profitable business. Standing around in the dead of winter feeding a machine one bottle at a time hoping that it will accept my brand is just stupid. Hence, I have a ton of "beverage bags" that sit in the basement for 6 months until I find a free saturday and a center that has actual humans to seperate them.
After all this hassle, I still recycle, but Im seeing all the nickle and diming and hoops of fire society makes you go through to do it doesn't necessarily contribute to more people recycling - I would venture to guess that a lot of people just chuck them in the regular trash and spend what little time they are not at work doing things they actually like, like taking their daughter to the park, or teaching her the pogo dance to the first Ramones record.
Why dont we make the deposit a quarter? fifty cents? then there will be no litter (or wire coat hangers) ever.
The _bad_ liquor store near my house has a sign outside to vote "no"...
The _good_ liquor store near my house doesn't seem to care, even though, unlike the bad liquor store, it shares a parking lot with Stah Mahket.
I can't see a _good_ reason to vote against this. I will probably continue to patronize the good liquor store for it's selection, and occasionally pick up swag at the grocery store.
This regulation is blue, and if for no other reason, should go for that.
I'd like to know what price ranges constitute wine sales in MA. I would guess that the overall market is made up of many more $10 sales than $40 sales. Those $10 sales being for Cavit or low-end Beringer or Carlo Rossi. The Cask or Vinnin can only afford to stock unusual or less in demand wines (your Argentinian Malbecs) because they sell so much Rabbit's Ridge. Decrease the demand for Rabbit's Ridge at the Cask and they don't respond by getting more Zenato Valpolicella.
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I've bought wine/beer at grocery stores. There is a grocery store on my street, two blocks from my house, that sells beer. Maybe there will be no economic loss to mom & pop shops, however, it doesn't follow that we will see a flowering diversity of selection either. Who benefits: Shaw's/Whole Foods/etc. So why do I care? I'm almost never inconvenienced, and I like the selection and price I have now.
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$56 for a fifth of Oban in Queens last weekend. I know it's apples and baked beans (heh...), but I can get Oban for $45 over at Vinnin Liquors.
Paging Dr. Skinner. Paging Dr. B.F. Skinner! You were rewarded by your parent's admiration, and the behavior they wanted to condition in you has stuck.
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All the bad experiences you are listing have to do with the collection mechanism of the recyclables, which would be true whether or not there was a deposit. OK, maybe there wouldn't be Coin Star machines. You have no argument from me that cities and towns should make it easier to physically recycle these materials. I'm not sure that would be incentive enough.
The bottle bill "cost" to the taxpayer is $35 million, I haven't heard of a program that costs less per capita that yields the same results. How much would it cost to staff redemption and sorting centers in all of MA towns for eight hours every weekend?
Clipper Liquours sucks, and the only reason people go to it (like myself) is because they're lazy and it's the only one near JP. Anyone in Eastie can tell you that, even the drunks.
Wine in the streets!
I reject that wine sales in grocery stores is a free market argument. Won't all these new locations still need to be licensed and controlled by state and local boards? Some freedom.
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Sounds like BH's packie has violated the first rule of business (even more important than trying to have more than one class of customer): location, location, location. Even though it's the only liquor store for --heavens-- blocks and blocks and blocks, he can only entice drunken BU students through his door.
While I'm being honest, too: My only interest in this thread now is pushing it to over 100 posts as quickly as possible.
He also has a not so bad selection of beer, a friendly demeanor, and never underestimate the slackness of people unwilling to cross the street when there's a packie right there. A lot of people get off the t and have to walk by him.
Also, the star across the street sucks so badly that I'll do almost anything to avoid going in.
hey - I have that cd somewhere! ;)
"... for it is selection"
<img src="http://img.music.yahoo.co.kr/music/album/00/02/38/00000000000000071241-600x600_72dpi_RGB.jpg">
You're assailing me.
Although as Frank Booth does, I'd prefer PBR
<img src="http://www.markpoutenis.com/images/mark_art/frank_booth.jpg">
"Heneiken!!? Fuck That Shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!"...