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Posted by tommy on 2006-11-22 12:22:25 +0000

Various places to live way crummier than Allston: - Nashua, NH - Billerica/Burlington, MA - Green Bay, WI - Los Angeles, CA - Buffalo, NY - East Cleveland, OH - Calgary, Alberta - Anything south of Baltimore [limiting to places I've slept at least once]

Posted by G lib on 2006-11-22 12:31:50 +0000

-Lawrence, MA -Manch-Vegas, NH -Athol, MA -Dallas/Fort Worth, TX -Las Vegas, NV (in some ways) -and I'll second Billerica.

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2006-11-22 12:36:47 +0000

We already covered this topic here.

Posted by G lib on 2006-11-22 12:49:23 +0000

I was expanding on it, fucktard.

Posted by Miriam on 2006-11-22 13:07:14 +0000

Hey! There are a LOT of places that are not crummy south of Baltimore...Charleston, Savannah, Atlanta, parts of Florida. And if you were making a generalization of The South, well you may not be welcome at my humble but not crummy abode in Nashville!

Posted by tommy on 2006-11-22 13:18:07 +0000

No real offense meant! Different people like different places... I can barely stand the summers in Boston, so it'd be torture for me south of Baltimore. I'd disagree about Atlanta, which I found totally crummy. But, I would agree that Charleston and Savannah are quite uncrummy, and I would add Athens and Austin, too. Any generalizations about The South that I may have made should be interpreted to include New Hampshire.

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2006-11-22 13:29:54 +0000

Sorry... this topic about my hometown (that I'll probably have to be removed from by using jaws of life) being called a dump is making me a little testy.

Posted by G lib on 2006-11-22 13:36:13 +0000

Snorewood? I know you're all into Mustang Pride (c), but if it didn't have the mall, it might have made it onto my 'worst' list.

Posted by G lib on 2006-11-22 13:37:19 +0000

Lorbering-- I just remembered-- the Mall is actually in Walpole. I think Snorewood just made it onto my list!

Posted by tommy on 2006-11-22 13:37:26 +0000

Use it to your advantage, BQ! I get bemused looks from my Billerica-livin' relatives when Somerville comes up. They are thinking "Good God, why on earth would he choose to live there??". They envision it as a giant slum, I'm sure. Their loss. the more people erroneously think it's a dump, the cheaper it is to live there.

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-22 13:42:46 +0000

Southern New Hampshire -- brought to you by disgruntled Mass-Holes.

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-22 13:43:02 +0000

Anyplace south or west of my current location.

Posted by tommy on 2006-11-22 13:44:35 +0000

That's the spirit!

Posted by bizquig3000 on 2006-11-22 13:47:16 +0000

Not Norwood... Allston!

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-11-22 14:27:01 +0000

Is Allston the only neighborhood in Boston that doesn't have a Starbucks?

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-22 14:41:57 +0000

yes! fucktard is gaining ground (I think)!

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-22 14:42:39 +0000

Nashua isn't that bad. Ever eat at Surf or Villa Banca on main st?

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-22 14:43:51 +0000

WTF - so much NH bashing from folks. What about Concord, TGL?

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-11-22 14:50:50 +0000

I am posting from Concord. Watch yr. step!

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-22 14:51:23 +0000

The first stop in Central NH, and the Hooksett tollbooth will set you free. I'll never be considered a native New Hampshirite (not only have I lived in Massa-two-shits for the last 7 years, but I was born west of the Mississippi), but I can try to fit in with the liberal elite of Concord by looking down my nose at the "flatlanders" to the south. Northern NH has a fine libertarian streak while southern NH goes for the GOP party line, which has only increased with the relocation of conservative Bay Staters to the area. The bad rap NH gets is generally about the southern tier (Nashua, Manchester, Seabrook). It's entirely a Newark thing. New Yorkers look across the Hudson and see the filth they are responsible for, so to do Bay Staters when they gaze I-93.

Posted by Miriam on 2006-11-22 15:02:21 +0000

Okay...apology accepted. There are a couple of cool neighborhoods in Hotlanta...but the summers here are brutal, if you don't have air conditioning and access to a swimming pool or the river/lake. Asheville, NC is amazing, Chattanooga has a great aquarium...but I'll give you Memphis for crummy.

Posted by tommy on 2006-11-22 15:07:00 +0000

I'll agree: it's the southern tier of NH that I try to avoid. I know that that Nashua does in fact have a downtown. But from growing up in Greater Lowell, (South) Nashua is to me the local archetype of the traffic-light-strip-mall hell hole, and I will always hate Nashua with all my being. But I do like Concord and Portsmouth.

Posted by G lib on 2006-11-22 15:29:17 +0000

There isn't a Starbucks in Eastie. No good coffee, either.

Posted by G lib on 2006-11-22 15:29:58 +0000

I was making a joke, fucktard!

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-11-22 17:18:43 +0000

You're dropping fucktards like they're Fagens.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-23 00:35:36 +0000

dropping fucktards like Gaileleo dropping the Orange...

Posted by tendiamonds on 2006-11-23 00:41:57 +0000

I am New York.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-23 00:54:05 +0000

Fuck 'What's The Matter With Kansas' it should have been Southern New Hampshire. I'm curious where the 'Southern NH goes for the GOP party line'- you ever see the charter schools in Amherst? The independent cinema of Wilton? Have Dischord bands ever played Concord? Did Kim Colleta come from Northern NH? Did Jack Kerouac and his parents live in Northern NH for a stretch? NO! They were in Nashua (Oops - I'm remembering now that Kerouac was a little less liberal than Burroughs and Ginsberg too - probably not helping my argument). The Nashua public library puts on annual jazz shows of impeccable quality - before I moved to Western Mass I saw Curtis Fuller, a trombonist who played with trane himself on Coltrane's landmark Blue Note album 'Blue Train' in addition to seeing crack Boston jazz bassist John Lockwood there on like 4 different occaisions. The minister of the Nashua Unitarian Church has authored books about Jack Kerouac's Nashua ties and conducts tour of Southern NH beat landmarks every Fall during Lowell Celebrates Kerouac festivals. (I should also add that he and the Nashua church have played an integralfundraising and community support role in bringing the original 'On The Road' scroll to Lowell in 2007). I saw Whitesnake and Great White and Paul Revere and the Raiders in downtown Manchester (seperate occaisons, sadly) I've seen the world famous 'monkey boy' throw out T Shirts during Nashua Pride games at historic Holman stadium. I saw Santana and Phish at Holman stadium (probably not helping my argument oh well) But we Southern NH's are playing with our poop. We can't read. We have gun racks. We unquestionably support creationism and we desperately need Bay Stater's Cultural enlightenment. Whatever.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2006-11-23 03:20:47 +0000

No, no, no. That's the problem. Nashua has too much Bay Stater enlightenment, most of which comes from Massholes who don't want to pay taxes...

Posted by tommy on 2006-11-23 03:34:01 +0000

Danversport?

Posted by tommy on 2006-11-23 03:41:31 +0000

From me, no offense meant to you or your 603 brethren. Not the place for me is all. I'll also just note that I put my own hometown (Billerica) on my crummiest places list, so it's nothing personal. "Some of my best friends are Granite Staters"

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2006-11-23 03:52:21 +0000

That shit was nuts

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-23 11:12:41 +0000

I know I got defensive, but phrases like "Bay Stater enlightenment" get under my skin. So anything good coming out of Southern NH requires us to avert our eyes and grovel to our highly superior Mass neighbors? Why are city folk so much better? None of our prior arguments have convinced me that there is one grain of superiority for folks living in Boston or NYC or LA over people removed from that.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-23 11:18:04 +0000

None taken - Nashua has light years to go and I know its not a cultural mecca. My point is that it's where Im from and when I was younger I was fine with "crummy" (and would probably even call it so now in Jest or drunk with friends) but stone sober at home right now, I would say that I have had a lot of good opportunities, an excellent upbringing, grade A friends, and many other things as a result of my 1987-2003 tenure in Southern NH tenure. All you've got in this world are the places you come from and I'm not ready to write off White Trashua or the Merry Mack...

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-23 11:21:41 +0000

Miriam, your east coast sensibilities have vaporized. I'm afraid your southern currency won't be recognized here. Sorry. Try to have a nice Thanksgiving and give thanks to Bay Stater enlightenment.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-23 11:27:07 +0000

Since this thread was originally about one town of Allston, Ma. Here are anoutsider's impression: Love: -Thrift Stores -Bars -Great Scott, Common Ground -Korean Bakeries Not So Love: -Parking Gestapo -Lake Sized Pot Holes -Trash strewn streets Overall: I'd focus on the Buzz's assesment that it is Starbuck's free, has reared a lot of my favorite people, has way good food, music and conversation. Just fix the fuckin streets already.

Posted by Miriam on 2006-11-24 14:02:37 +0000

Funny, MF DU, but the currency in the South has long since been valued the same as the North. By the way, how many of the last 5 Presidents were from the North? Just checking. I'm desperately trying to hold onto my East Coast liberalism...it's hard when the only Democratic canditates I have to vote for would be considered Republicans anywhere else. Enjoyed Thanksgiving. Thankful that I live where it's going to be 70 tomorrow. Perfect leaf-raking weather!

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-24 14:15:33 +0000

I disagree, all we've got is our family and friends. Place is an illusion. Pride of place causes strife (see also, Israel, North Ireland, Nazi Germany, etc.)

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-24 14:16:09 +0000

I think you've misconstrued my comments.

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-24 14:22:13 +0000

Bush - Connecticut Clinton - Arkansas, but a liberal philanderer which is a elitist Northeast value. Bush - Massachusetts Reagan - Illinois, turned into one of those Hollywood types, you know what that means. Carter - Georgia, had lust in is heart (see Clinton). What's the point? Happy FAT DAy.

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-24 14:31:49 +0000

St. Cloud

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-24 14:48:50 +0000

Rich Ladew in Nashua = Hitler. Got it.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2006-11-24 17:42:19 +0000

Why are you making such a disconnect MF DU? That's not what he's saying at all? Have the holidays got you down?

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-24 18:20:25 +0000

Holidays are actually quite fun, and I hope you all are enjoying them as well. You are probably right (re: disconnect) if you mean by this point that this has been blown WAY out of its proportion of relevance / importance / whatever. However, how is taking exception to the label of "crummy" to the place you call home construed as "pride of place"?. Disconnect or not, I have the perception, at least, that "pride of place" is actually what is being used by urban bay staters in this instance / thread against those of us who are less than "urban". To reintroduce G lib's theme here, we are not all "Fucktards" for living 20 miles outside of a city...

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-25 18:47:58 +0000

No, no, no. It's not about distance to an urban center. I've made no distinctions about a location relative to a city. Nowhere have I said that living in an urban center is important, sorta implied the opposite in posting about Central NH, don't you think? What it's _really_ about is distance upstream. Concordite's waste flows down the Merrimack to Manchester, Nashua, Lowell, Haverhill, Salisbury. I'd prefer Plymouth, myself. Concord, NH is known in some circles as "City in a Coma". It's a title well earned. (As MF DU pointed out, Concord wasn't really a whistle stop on anyone's tour book. The cultural highlight during my Junior High days was the Winger concert). Imagine my delight to find The Concord Insider yesterday, checkout the reprint from a 1949 Post. It's understandable to get a bit defensive when someone shits on (ha!) our hometowns. I'm a little taken aback as I thought I was explaining how I felt the general disregard NH has in MA as a fault of Bay Staters themselves. For a bit of unity, let's list all the things that make Our Fair Commonwealth (MA) great: * optional higher income tax rate * it's a Commonwealth, not a State * 5cent bottle deposit I can feel my Pride of Place growing.

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-11-26 00:37:09 +0000

Over the course of my last few classes, I have mentioned both Winger's show in Concord, in a 'Major Cultural Event' kind of way, and Kim Coletta as being someone musical from New Hampshire who isn't GG or Lisa Carver or Aerosmith (Gonna talk about the Shaggs on Wednesday!)

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-26 01:00:50 +0000

Take a whiff of my pant leg.

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-11-26 01:04:57 +0000

Six O'Clock! Seven O'Clock! Eight O'Clock! ALL RIGHT! Whoooooooooooo! Is Spencer our proudest musical export? Is Aerosmith really a New Hampshire band, or ar they Boston transplants?

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-26 01:13:34 +0000

Tyler's mother still lives in Sunapee.

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-26 01:17:15 +0000

Nashua, named by Money magazine as "Best Place to Live in America" TWICE (1987 and 1997), is also the birthplace of Jennifer Lavoie (Playmate of the Month, August 1993). Thanks, Wikipedia.

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-11-26 01:58:50 +0000

Writers, on the other hand, are abundant: John Irving John Cheever ee cummings J.D. Salinger P.J. O'Rourke Charles Simic Donald Hall

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-26 02:06:10 +0000

That's your all NH list, not Nashua, I'd take it.

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-26 02:07:19 +0000

lorbering: we need a verb to describe the failure to "reply to the post you are replying to".

Posted by tommy on 2006-11-26 02:08:29 +0000

My aunt Lynne used to watch them practice in either North Reading or North Andover before they made it big.

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-11-26 02:08:47 +0000

We'll call that a "Nashua"

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2006-11-26 04:54:40 +0000

For the record: I belive MF DU invented the term "Bay Stater enlightenment", meaning it can never be used in a positive light.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-26 16:07:15 +0000

Jackie and I boated past Tyler's Lake Sunapee home a few summers ago. I used to hear that Aerosmith was from Londonderry. I think there is a song on Sonic Youth's Sonic Nurse that references both NH directly as well as Aerosmith indirectly. Live Free or Put Scarves on Your Microphone.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-26 16:22:18 +0000

I had to read Conor's Sun 11/26/06 post a few times to try and understand it, but I think I may still not be understanding it clearly. I will do my best with what I think it to mean. Here goes: On the first few reads I was thinking Conor was saying I was the first to use 'Bay Stater Enlightenment', which I had trouble with. I think it means that I captured the phrase and used it to mean something besides its original meaning. I know in this thread I put the above phrase in a negative light the most blatantly, but are you saying here that "Bay Stater enlightenment" as a phrase was used positively by everyone until I posted otherwise? The way I took the "BS Enlightenment" of this was as a response to my comments about the only reason that there were things that were cool about living in Southern NH is beacause Southern NH had been infused by cultural sensibilities brought largely by southern urban dwellers of a neighboring state. I can see now how some people can take "BS Enlightenment" as a positive idea, but it is difficult for me to be exposed to that phrase without thinking that it is inferred that without the 'BS Enlightenment' that there is not much good to speak of in Southern NH. The other idea I had while thinking about this is that Southern NH is also a great place to live because of its proximity. So whether you give a tinker's cuss about politics, taxes, culture, or celebrities summer homes in Sunapee, from Southern NH you are an hour from the mountains, an hour from Boston, an hour from the Ocean, an hour from Burlington VT etc. etc. etc.

Posted by cdubrocker on 2006-11-26 19:48:28 +0000

But for an excellent espresso, you can always hit Cafe Italia. Once the Melting Pot opens its doors, we'll be in business, after which a Starbucks will open across the street.

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-26 20:21:08 +0000

This is what makes me pull my hair out: "the only reason that there were things that were cool about living in Southern NH is beacause Southern NH had been infused by cultural sensibilities brought largely by southern urban dwellers of a neighboring state." Was this a claim I made? I don't think so. MF DU has been pointing out the cultural aspects of Southern NH. If my comments were intrepreted as meaning that Nashua/Manchester are cultural cess-pools, you've got me wrong. Here are my two claims: * The effect of the Bay Stater invasion in the Granite State has been to reinforce the Republican nature of the state. (Although judging by the last election, my thesis might be false). * The strip malls and traffic jams in Southern NH are a result of Bay Staters looking to hoodwink the tax man. In White Trashua, the Trash have a Metro-Boston accent. --- Conor coined "Bay State enlightenment", although he was using it in a sarcastic sense. --- I think we can all agree that the geographic diversity accessible to most of New England is a big plus.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-26 21:36:22 +0000

Should the next black and white vinyl sticker with red stenciled lettering read NASHUA? (What would the picture be?)

Posted by tommy on 2006-11-26 23:45:14 +0000

Picture doesn't matter, so long as you place the sticker someplace other than the place you want it.

Posted by MF DU on 2006-11-27 00:27:34 +0000

I Certainly didn't mean to make you pull yr hair out. I am clearly starting to see I miscontstrued what you meant in yr initial posts. Nothing Is, but thinking makes it so.

Posted by tgl on 2006-11-27 01:25:05 +0000

Not sure why this is funny.

Posted by G lib on 2006-11-27 12:06:17 +0000

I don't like Nashua and Billerica for the same reason I don't like my own home town, Hopkinton. How are these places the same, you ask? *There are very few local markets *You have to drive to go to anything *Homogeny *Too many strip malls and big box retailers *Too many people commuting to work in Boston in their cars *The only housing available is new Developments in Lollypop subdivisions. Only difference is that in Hopkinton, they look like this: There are other things, but it's too early on Monday. and in Billerica they look like this: