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Posted by rladew on 2004-09-22 16:03:19 +0000

How will any of this be verified? sounds like a lot of hand wringing over nothing IMHO.

Posted by tgl on 2004-09-22 16:24:24 +0000

When your 11 year old kid gets hit with a stray bullet at Pee Wee football practice, you might start wringing your hands. The gains against gang violence in the 90s are starting to slip. I agree that the implementation of this loitering ban is probably extremely difficult. They might just as well call it profiling. This is the Drunk Dialin' forum, which is different than just Cold Lampin', although the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Posted by rladew on 2004-09-22 16:36:49 +0000

gang violence and loitering have nothing to do with one another and I dont see how anyone can come up with a verifiable criteria to decide if someone is a gang loiterer or not. To me it sounds like a waste of time when you could focus your efforts on mentoring kids or as a community helping them with more positive opportunities...

Posted by frame609 on 2004-09-22 17:22:11 +0000

It's a loose umbrella to give kids who look like gang members a bunch of shit. Which means, of course, that the cops are going to roll up on me once I find that '617' hat I've been looking for.

Posted by G lib on 2004-09-22 20:05:44 +0000

Rich, All of us agree that every kid should have a safe, violence-free place to learn and play whenever they want to (or really, their parents say they can.) However, all of those 'community involvement' programs cost money, and in the neighborhoods where the violence is stepping up, the communities are already overstrapped. Neighbors just don't have the time or money or resources to make programs happen. What's an extra trillion to Bill Gates when that money could be way better spent giving kids on the street something else to do than cold lamp? Or kids released from jail something better to do than sell drugs (which got them into jail in the first place)?

Posted by tgl on 2004-09-22 20:09:12 +0000

Gates is already involved in philanthropicly. This is a bit off-topic, anyway. I think we're all concerned with the ability to curb gang violence by detected purported gang members by their loitering predilections. Smells like racial profiling.

Posted by rladew on 2004-09-22 20:57:09 +0000

Racial Profiling is overrated though - how do you measure / verify / proove that cops are profiling people because of the color of their skin? If people are judging others because of the color of their skin, that is bad, but slinging around buzz words like racial profiling doesn't do anything to solvethe actual problems we are talking about here: I feel it just perpetuates animosity between the kids and the cops....

Posted by tgl on 2004-09-22 21:15:38 +0000

You look at the public records and see that a disproportionate number of black males are pulled over for no apparent moving violations.

Posted by rladew on 2004-09-23 01:12:58 +0000

where are you going with that statement, Terry? Are people predjudiced? Absolutely. Can we document it, prove its existence, and demonstrte why its bad? maybe. But you cant all the sudden make people get along and police officers do need to have some level of discretion in their jobs, heavier regulation might weed out all the bad eggs, but yr going to take just as many good eggs that wont have any power to fight crime too.

Posted by frame609 on 2004-09-23 03:07:22 +0000

This is the same shit that everyone who rode a skateboard used to get- making offical the reason to shoo away the malcontents, whether thewy are actually a threat or not.

Posted by tgl on 2004-09-23 05:40:46 +0000

I'm not going anywhere with the statement. I'm justing saying it's possible to quantitative determine if racial profiling is a factor in traffic stops for a police department. I'm not deluded that the recognition of profiling will suddenly make everyone get along, but doesn't recognition of inequality count for something? There is nothing illegal about being prejudiced, or even racist. I'm certain I'm prejudiced. It's when people act on their prejudices that it's a problem. If you're not aware you're prejudiced how can you consciously make an effort not to be?

Posted by frame609 on 2004-09-23 06:26:12 +0000

This shit is nothing new, though- Jesus, especially in a city like this one.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-09-23 18:18:34 +0000

"Racial Profiling is overrated though - how do you measure / verify / proove that cops are profiling people because of the color of their skin?" How? Ask them. Call the Maryland police department and ask for their profiling sheet. It will contain race information, state liscene plates, and car/truck types, colors and trim packages, that lead to a better percenatge of arrests. Do people not realize many (most?) states do this?

Posted by rladew on 2004-09-23 22:19:14 +0000

There another side to this besides being black though - I drive by cars getting pulled over a lot and a lot of the cars, kids, etc DRAW ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES. Big mile high spoiler, gold rims, a huge muffler that doesn't muffle anything, bazooka bass systems a la pimp my ride, neon under carriage lights (look at fast furious or whatever) or unrelated to cars: you can dress however you want in America, yes. But you CANT dress in ways that draw attention to yrself and then ask what everyone is looking at. If you have green hair, wear yr hat sideways, have a lot of tatoos, wear pants that are 7 times too big for you... Go for it! But why the big crocodile tears when you get the attention you were crying out for? these big liberal ideas wont help foster better racial relationships: people behaving responsibly and rationally on their own accord might.

Posted by frame609 on 2004-09-24 00:52:31 +0000

Rich has a point- think college in New Hampshire. Drivin' around with a pot leaf or Marley sticker on yr. car = probable cause, if the cops are looking for an excuse. Hell, me wearing my 'Everything Went Black' shirt in Brookline tonight probably equals the same.

Posted by tgl on 2004-09-24 02:07:48 +0000

I don't think Dawn or I are talking about adolescents in pimped-out cars. A black man in a car. That's all.