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Posted by dyedon8 on 2008-09-23 20:35:26 +0000

Awesome. Thanks for this.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-09-23 20:51:18 +0000

I love city hall plaza.

Posted by pchippy on 2008-09-23 21:08:43 +0000

I'm no big fan of Brutalist architecture, but I admit that I, too, love City Hall Plaza. What it most needs: 1.) several fountains near the top of the plaza with artificial brooks running down toward the bottom, and 2.) much more greenery, with tall leafy trees and maybe garlands of trailing vines dangling down from the overhangs of City Hall. Incidentally, my great-grandfather's first job when he came to Boston from rural NH to make his fortune (sometime around 1901) was selling hot dogs out of a bucket in Scollay Square.

Posted by pamsterdam on 2008-09-23 21:12:14 +0000

I would love to see photos of your great-grandfather. Preferably with the bucket. Wow.

Posted by pamsterdam on 2008-09-23 21:13:14 +0000

Um... isn't that what Copley Square looks like now? Color me unobservant, I guess.

Posted by mr. mister on 2008-09-24 02:23:44 +0000

I think that there are more flowers and trees on the sidewalk facing the library and it looks like they moved the fountain over a little. I used to eat my Wendy's dollar meal over there when I worked in the Hancock Tower.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-09-24 05:55:37 +0000

A part of the reason I enjoy Boston City Hall Plaza: "This is one of the most disappointing places in America." May I humbly suggest an expansive bench in the middle of it all?

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-09-24 12:40:34 +0000

I'm pretty sure the fountain didn't move at all, the city just put a lawn over the stepped mosaic. Interestingly, they paved over more space in front of the BPLibrary across from the church when Dartmouth Street became a one way 4 years ago.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-09-24 15:48:54 +0000

You're welcome!

Posted by pchippy on 2008-09-24 15:55:21 +0000

The fountain may not have moved, but it was replaced by a new fountain, one that I like very much. It manages to be both classically elegant and informal--it clearly invites people to sit down by its side and dunk their weary feet, and even encourages little kids to climb around on its structure and play in the falling water. As far as I know, the park authorities have no problem with such activities.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-09-24 16:01:35 +0000

I'm fine with City Hall, in fact I hope it's not demolished, just amended to. In Boston, if not elsewhere, large open brick plaza = dead zone (such as in the photo above). Like pchippy says, the plaza needs to have more trees, benches, places to sit and chat, and a brook would be phenomenal. Since Center Plaza and the JFK Building aren't going to be torn down anytime soon, unfortunately, the plaza itself needs to made more society-friendly. The only place I recall that I've been to which even approaches the death that is City Hall Plaza is SUNY Binghamton ca. 1992.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-09-24 16:05:04 +0000

The lawn in place of that stepped mosaic is brilliant! Copley Square would otherwise be such a cold and crappy place...like City Hall Plaza. No number of ice cream or barbecue festivals or free concerts will change the inherent desolation of that place. Make it work, Menino!

Posted by tgl on 2008-09-24 16:08:28 +0000

Demolishing and selling to developers would be tragic. This land was taken from West Enders in the first place (I'm sure they got a fair price, in 1970... whatever). For the land to end up benefiting private developers would be a disgrace. I like the building, think the plaza could be fixed up.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-09-24 16:40:17 +0000

pchippy is correct; the fountain was replaced. In the winter when the water is drained, the fountain interior is a fantastic skateboarding area. And while this does do some minor damage to the concrete corners (seen as a white stripe in the above photo's lower right), it gets covered by water for most of the year.

Posted by tommy on 2008-09-24 18:32:45 +0000

I don't think I'm being too reactionary by suggesting that we could do a lot better here by: 1) Tearing down the buildings 2) Putting the streets back in, in the same places and with the same widths they had in the 1950s 3) Selling off the land in the same small chunks it was divided into in the 50's, and disallowing anyone from buying up too many contiguous chunks. So, CC, you like the place because it's disappointing? Or because others think it's disappointing? I'm not sure that benches or greenery will really fix anything here. The issue is that there's a giant open area with no reason at all for anybody to do anything but cut through. If it's to be a cut-through, then it should be smaller (and should let you easily cut through!)... if it's to be a place for people to be, then there needs to be a reason for people to be there. Benches won't do that.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-09-24 19:19:47 +0000

I like it for dozens of reasons: open space; place for concerts, gatherings, protests, freestyle bmx; fascinating architecture; always relatively clean; excellent terminus for victory parades; so fun in rain storms; etc... Part of my interest though is how some people really, REALLY dislike City Hall Plaza. It illicits a cornucopia of opinions; it's doing something right on an artistic level as well. I walked through the Fens after having lunch at the Christian Science reflecting pool. Saw an elder Chinese man catching (and not releasing) sunfish. Nice day for it.

Posted by mahatma chani on 2008-09-24 19:54:45 +0000

Although I like it for various reasons, the big one against City Hall Plaza for me is all the concrete. A little more organics might liven it up.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-09-24 20:47:46 +0000

I have always thought the main problem with City Hall Plaza is its surroundings. Center Place (obscuring the beautiful John Adams Courthouse) and the JFK Building are hideous to look at, and boring to be near. City Hall Plaza would be a huge success if its surroundings were somewhat more similar to Copley Plaza surroundings. Even if we can't tear down Center Place and the JFK, benches ALONG WITH tables AND some tree covering would, I think, make the place more of a place to be at lunch or whenever. It's true that benches won't do it alone, but tables do make all the difference (see new Cambridge park at Main and Columbia [Pu Pu Hot Pot] for evidence). City Hall and its plaza should definitely remain, they just need some rejiggering to make them more friendly to the walking public. But your plan of tearing down buildings is a wonderful idea concerning those other 2 buildings as well as that godawful mental health building down the street. It's terrific area for mixed use residential/commercial buildings (which it once was!).

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-09-26 18:45:32 +0000

The results of the sanitizing of some 60s architecture in NYC. I'm in agreement with the author - the old facade had so much more character. If they do modify City Hall, I hope it's not extreme - better to have an iconic, beautifully ugly City Hall than a generic one, which I'm sad to say is what I've come to expect from most new Boston-area construction.

Posted by mr. mister on 2008-09-28 15:16:42 +0000

Copley Plaza has plenty of people hanging out all the time on the benches. The only problem is their all homeless. They have had problems with the fountain because people put soap bubbles in there which created a bubbly fun time party. City hall sucks because it is an unending staircase. It does have the coolest sculpture in the city though. That freaky abstract horse looking thing named "Argument", which is near a bunch of benches and trees.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-11-19 19:11:52 +0000

I didn't realize there was once a fountain on City Hall Plaza - where that large concrete wedge is now: I like it! Bostonians congregating on City Hall Plaza for something other than a festival, protest, or concert. Who'd a thunk it?

Posted by virtue on 2008-11-20 10:45:44 +0000

we'll make the secretaries feel better!

Posted by MF DU on 2008-11-20 15:38:30 +0000

Has anyone read any Dennis Leahne? I picked this up at the Library the other day and I am enjoying it so far - Boston in the early 1900s.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-11-20 17:08:38 +0000

Nope, I need to check that out.

Posted by tgl on 2008-11-21 00:15:25 +0000

Two things that Boston is utterly lacking: public fountains & striped pants. TFC! You can solve at least one of these problems single-handedly!

Posted by jbcardinale on 2008-11-21 17:39:41 +0000

World's Ugliest Building? http://members.virtualtourist.com/vt/t/1c7/

Posted by loxocele on 2008-11-25 02:11:00 +0000

on a semi non sequitur note, this made me think of a journal my friend is pulling together: it's called Place/Time, and the idea is that each issue will feature pieces (of any genre) about a specific place in a specific time. the first issue is focusing on boston in 1997 or 1897. the blurb she sent out is reposted below, if any ridesiders have anything to say and want to submit it. :) ----------------------- A little while ago I posted about my most recent mad creative project, Place/Time, a literary journal based on focusing on a specific place and time and seeing what falls out. For our first issue, we're looking at Boston in 1997, and may be putting that in conversation with 1897, the turn of the previous century, after a longer submission that did a brilliant job of doing just that. We've pushed our submissions deadline back to December 1st; the stuff we've gotten is great but we're hoping to get a little more of it. Realistically, starting a journal out of nothing like this on a tight schedule, I don't expect to get inundated with submissions from friends, let alone strangers; but consider this a first reminder if I haven't gotten around to emailing you yet, and an invitation to drop me a line if you've got an idea in your head, whether it be something you'd like to produce or otherwise. We'd love to read some more fiction, especially, but we're also interested in book reviews of books that either were written then or deal with that time. (I've had someone recommend Zodiac, recently, as a book that would be particularly good for this.) So if this sounds exciting to you, drop me a comment or an email! (rachel(at)akrasiac[dot]org) I'd love to hear from you, and I look forward to presenting issue 1 of Place/Time to all of you and to the world at the end of December.

Posted by dyedon8 on 2008-11-25 02:40:30 +0000

Done.

Posted by loxocele on 2008-11-25 03:13:55 +0000

oh awesome. :)

Posted by virtue on 2008-11-25 10:14:33 +0000

Someone should tell your friend that Zodiac takes place in the late 80s (date per red sox players mentioned, others on this list could probably date it more accurately based on injuries), not 1997. Gack, I geek.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-11-25 11:41:42 +0000

In the same vein - '97 was the year of Andrew Cunanan, Gay Serial Killer.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-11-25 11:43:42 +0000

L: along with Heaven's Gate.

Posted by loxocele on 2008-11-25 14:13:36 +0000

oh wow, i remember both of those.... 1997 was actually the year *before* i moved to boston, but i did spend 4 or 5 chunks of a few days there - one of which was particularly memorable. the trick will be whether i can capture something externally mundane in a way that makes the internal relevance interesting....

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-11-25 17:40:39 +0000

L: Locally, we were riveted by the murder trial of au pair Louise Woodward.