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Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-11-24 19:39:54 +0000

Good. Maybe Bernard Cohen ought to visit Eastie.

Posted by MF DU on 2008-11-25 12:18:24 +0000

Demolish the turnpike authority. Up the gas tax. Problem solved. Cronies of turnpike will cry - but they will get over it.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-11-25 12:20:41 +0000

Seconded.

Posted by virtue on 2008-11-25 12:24:29 +0000

Thirded.

Posted by G lib on 2008-11-25 13:11:06 +0000

4thed

Posted by tgl on 2008-11-25 13:49:12 +0000

Fived.

Posted by pchippy on 2008-11-25 14:49:48 +0000

Oxersexed.

Posted by pchippy on 2008-11-25 14:50:06 +0000

I mean "sixed."

Posted by virtue on 2008-11-25 15:25:45 +0000

Can anyone tell me what the rationalizations for not upping the gas tax are? It's been like 20 years since we had an increase, and it's not like anyone really knows what part of the gas they pay goes to the state vs. the oil companies. I'm looking for something more than "because people who drive a lot will have to pay a lot."

Posted by jbcardinale on 2008-11-25 15:39:12 +0000

Presumably the toll hikes are to pay for the Big Dig. So if you live in Fitchburg, Monson or Fall River, you don't derive any benefit from the Big Dig and the only time you'll pay a toll is when you go to the airport or go into Boston via the Masspike. So for most people outside Rt. 128, they don't want to pay for something that benefits Boston. MF DU, is there an anti-Boston sentiment out there?

Posted by jbcardinale on 2008-11-25 15:45:29 +0000

more.... http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/11/25/huge_bill_could_soon_come_due_for_turnpike/ not just Eastie and Everett, too http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/regional_editions/globe_west/west/2008/11/toll_hike_equal.html

Posted by MF DU on 2008-11-25 15:54:34 +0000

I take the pike all the time. Palmer, Ma to Springfield Ma or Sturbridge MA to Worcester then on up to 495 / Rt 3 to White Trashua. also Sturbridge to Watertown or Allston Ma. People have been talking since the turnpike's creation that tolls were a temporary thing - its time for the talk to stop. I know I have beaten this into the ground before on RSN, but all that $ that just has to go to pay the people to stand there? That isn't funding the Big Dig. There is a fair degree of Western Mass sentiment that most of that toll $ is being funnelled to Boston, but that really isnt why tolls irritate me per se. I think they impede the natural flow of traffic, cause accidents as a result of the always changing mix of "Fast Lane" / "Cash" lanes, and shine a glaring light on how inefficient and archaic transportation revenue is. Whether my sentiment is valid or not, this was one of the biggest reasons (the Cadillac and the curtains had nothing to do with it - I swear) I could not bring myself to vote for Deval Patrick.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-11-25 16:15:39 +0000

How do you gas tax regionally? Can counties apply their own taxes? In some degree this is simply economics. The space in a driving lane in a tunnel has value and we charge for it. While I don't know what the fair market value is, a random number assigned by the state is ridiculous. I hate tolls, and I avoid them when I can, but there is an argument for specific costs to specific roads.

Posted by tgl on 2008-11-25 23:23:00 +0000

Here's why Western MA residents should want Eastern MA residents to be more productive (in other words, have better highways): http://www.springfieldcityhall.com/finance/13.0.html Who do you think pays the bulk of that 61%? Income tax generated in Springfield or income tax generated in Boston? Just a small degree of Eastern Mass sentiment that most of the state's $ gets funneled west of Worcester. Boston receives 20-25% of it's revenue in state aid. True, it's probably a bigger total sum than the sum given to Springfield.

Posted by tgl on 2008-11-25 23:26:20 +0000

Do not tax by region. Make it state-wide, the entire state benefits. Tear down all tolls, merge the TPA & the Mass. Highway Dept., add $0.25/gal. to the gas tax.

Posted by pchippy on 2008-11-26 09:29:39 +0000

One argument I've heard against the gas tax is that it's a regressive tax--because just about everybody drives, and because their gas usage doesn't correlate very well with their income level, gas taxes disproportionately affect poorer residents compared to richer residents. Even so, increasing the tax still seems like a good idea to me. Especially if MA were to negotiate a region-wide tax hike with the other New England states.

Posted by virtue on 2008-11-26 10:15:33 +0000

Wouldn't that also be true of tolls?

Posted by tommy on 2008-11-28 14:17:15 +0000

A couple of things not mentioned so far: - Increasing tolls on the Pike does not make the users of the Big Dig pay, in general. Most Diggers are coming in via 93 and paying no tolls. So, it's not really much (any?) more unfair than a general gas tax. - A gas tax is very efficient. It's hard to avoid paying it, and almost all the money collected can be used. Tolls are inefficient. A large percentage of the money collected goes to paying for the people and equipment that do the collecting. - My gas tax helps pay for roads that I never use, e.g. in Western Mass, or Cape Cod. I am not outraged about that.

Posted by G lib on 2008-12-01 11:08:41 +0000

I'm going! _________________________________ Stop The Pike Hike Rally December 3rd at 4:00 Ecco Restaurant and Martini Bar 107 Porter Street, East Boston Please join us for our Stop The Pike Hike rally to protest the proposed toll hikes on the Massachusetts Turnpike. Date: Wednesday, December 3rd Time:4:00 PM Location: Ecco Restaurant and Martini Bar, 107 Porter Street, East Boston The rally will be a tri-partisan event and speakers will include: * State Senator Scott Brown (R) * State Representative Carlo Basile (D) * Former Vice Chairman of the Turnpike Authority Christy Mihos (I) * Radio Personality Michele McPhee of 96.9 * Merrimack Valley Spina Bifida Association Chairperson Cindy Ward * Founder of the Stop the Pike Hike group, Michael Kelleher

Posted by MF DU on 2008-12-03 12:45:17 +0000

Sounds like a good time. Pike curmudgeons unite!

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-12-03 21:34:31 +0000

Had a decent talk with a couple people about the proposed toll hike. We all came to the conclusion that the tolls should be even higher. It isn't public transport like buses or trains where the rates should be affordable (even though pricing people out might make the bus roomier). The state government mustn't allocate public transportation based on income. However public tunnels used by privately owned (or rented) cars is another matter. If the hiked toll generates more revenue AND diminishes traffic congestion then it's a win-win. "Up the Hike Rally" Thursday December 4, Noon. MassArt 10th floor tower.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-12-03 21:49:12 +0000

Explain how this is fair to the people who live in East Boston, and don't want to be further cut off from the surrounding communities, as well as to East Boston business owners, who need to draw customers from these communities in order to survive. Cutting off an entire community is in no way worth the money you'd be raising here.

Posted by tgl on 2008-12-03 22:11:00 +0000

I'd like to see the breakdown for customers in East Boston and where they come from.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-12-04 00:40:42 +0000

It's fair because it doesn't affect them, unless they drive south, on a highway, through a public tunnel, in a private car. They might even have a better connection with their neighbors to the North. How is anyone "cut off"? What method of transport is no longer functioning?

Posted by tgl on 2008-12-04 01:33:10 +0000

The Blue Line is pretty nice.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-12-05 11:22:38 +0000

It's about people who are not residents of East Boston driving there, to visit friends, restaurants, or whatever. Yes, they can get in for free, but they have to pay to get out. A visiting tax, I guess. How does this not affect them? It's about friends and customers saying, "I'd really like to visit so-and-so or go the this great restaurant in Eastie, but that toll sucks, so let's go to JP instead." I feel like everyone's missing that part of this story. Sure, the residents get a discount, but it's only HALF of the story. Yes, cut off!

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-12-05 11:30:22 +0000

And a connector should be made at Charles. People get annoyed enough with having to change T lines once...changing twice, while in theory should not be such a chore, is quite a chore in the minds of many (in my unscientific poll of asking around when I lived in Eastie). The Blue Line is the only line that does not connect with all of the others - another reason that Eastie is so removed. A lot of people think it as remote or more remote than JP, though it's right there, so close to Cambridge, Somerville, and Downtown Boston. We're all so connected in cyberspace, how about connecting tangible communities?

Posted by mr. mister on 2008-12-05 13:05:33 +0000

goodbye Santarpios your pizza just went up $6. Toll hike definitely effects business. There is a secret way to back to cambridge that doesn't lead you through the tolls. I did this once and it was confusing, but there is another way Someone should do a story on that.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-12-05 14:11:33 +0000

Who said it doesn't affect people? (When one or one's friends drive southwest, through a public tunnel, in a private car). 'Cut off' to me means separated, not inconvenienced.

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-12-05 14:41:23 +0000

You did: "It's fair because it doesn't affect them, unless they drive south, on a highway, through a public tunnel, in a private car." You add the "unless", but the following caveat negates your statement that it's fair because it doesn't affect them. It's the inconvenience that begets the separation. It looks like you think they're different issues; I think they're directly related to each other.

Posted by tommy on 2008-12-06 00:09:15 +0000

You mean Beacham St through Everett? Awesome shortcut. But, make sure you've got a spare tire as I think they last paved it around 1960. Hey it's been almost a year already since the last murder at King Arthur's! I think there is a combo porn store and Mexican food takeout establishment in an RV down there, but that actually sounds too awesome to be true. Maybe I dreamt that.

Posted by virtue on 2008-12-06 12:45:03 +0000

I lived in Eastie without a car the summer after I graduated from high school. Unless you go buy car, it *is* essentially cut off from the rest of the city for part of every day. It's impossible to walk or bike there directly from most of Boston, and the T (including the laughable water service) stops running around 1, and doesn't start up again until 5, 6 on weekends and holidays.

Posted by G lib on 2008-12-06 12:57:46 +0000

It's there. You didn't dream it.

Posted by G lib on 2008-12-06 13:01:10 +0000

It'll cost my parents $14.30 for a round trip to visit me. That's 26 miles, 45 minutes. Taking the train to Eastie for dinner for my parents is possible, but it would be 3 hours and cost over $10 each. My bro-in law can come all the way from Vermont, 93 all the way and pay $0 in tolls. How is that fair?

Posted by G lib on 2008-12-06 13:04:17 +0000

I know I"m not supposed to repost arguments from other boards on rideside, but here was my public service attempt to convince hipsters of the importance of stopping the toll hike. As you can tell, a FAIL!

Posted by G lib on 2008-12-06 13:05:56 +0000

I rode my bike that way ONCE, and the potholes and 18 wheelers were actually not the worst part-- Riding through a puddle with a dead rat in it was. Never did that again,

Posted by TheFullCleveland on 2008-12-06 14:06:59 +0000

I've biked that route a couple of times. Certain portions of the route smell really awful and stanky. Awful enough to never do that again unless necessary!

Posted by tgl on 2008-12-06 14:58:42 +0000

Then state and federal government didn't float billions of dollars in loans to build I-93, at least, those loans are paid off. The government still needs to pay for the convenience of the Williams Tunnel. Unless I'm mistaken, only the Williams (inbound) toll will be raised. Your parents can arrive via the Williams and leave via the Sumner (or is it Callahan in that direction?) . . . Oops, the Sumner (inbound) toll is getting hiked too. Get a Fast Lane, they'll save a buck.

Posted by tgl on 2008-12-06 15:13:00 +0000

What if East Boston was instead called "South Chelsea"? Would the citizens feel differently about connectivity with the city? It's close as the bird flies, true. But there is that Boston Harbor right there. What does it cost to get from Staten Island to Manhattan Island (and back)?

Posted by tgl on 2008-12-06 15:22:14 +0000

How about "West Logan"?

Posted by pamsterdam on 2008-12-06 15:24:15 +0000

The bridge has a $10 toll on it - one way only, though. And $1.50 cheaper with EZpass.

Posted by G lib on 2008-12-06 15:42:02 +0000

What if East Boston was instead called "South Chelsea"? Would the citizens feel differently about connectivity with the city? If we didn't have to deal with thousands of planes taking off from our neighborhood feeding the economic machine that is the hub of the universe, and could live in a bedroom community close to the city without the reduced air quality that comes from all of the cars driving into our neighborhood, maybe we would feel differently. The tunnels weren't built for Eastie residents. In fact, throughout the history of the airport, Eastie residents have gotten the shaft from MassPort again and again. TOLL THE AIRPORT! HUZZAH! But this toll will cripple Eastie as a Boston neighborhood filled with businesses and culture, and *gasp* people! But maybe that's the plan-- get rid of the people little by little, so the whole neighborhood can be an airport.

Posted by tgl on 2008-12-06 15:42:40 +0000

Bridge and tunnel tolls across the Harbor or Mystic are also one-way.

Posted by G lib on 2008-12-06 15:43:06 +0000

Staten people want to keep the rifraf out. Eastie doesn't want the rifraf kept in. :)

Posted by mr. mister on 2008-12-09 20:35:30 +0000

thanks for posting the secret back way. Just take that and everything will be ok. I don't think raising the gas tax is really the answer either because then you punish people that work in the city that commute in from out of town. But I live in the same building that I work in so who am I kidding. I'm not kidding you that's for sure!

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-12-09 23:07:21 +0000

It's fair because your Bro-in law doesn't take public tunnels nor public transit. Maybe I don't understand your question.

Posted by G lib on 2008-12-10 10:31:43 +0000

December 5, 2008 Dear Friend: I’d like to personally thank those who attended Wednesday evening’s public hearing on toll hikes. It is important that we vocally oppose the outrageous increase that the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority is attempting to unilaterally institute. People throughout the state, and their elected officials, need to know how detrimental such a move would be to real neighborhoods and real people. In order to make sure that our concerns continue to be part of the discussions, please join me in attending next week’s public hearing before the Turnpike Authority’s Board of Directors. Wednesday, December 10, 2008 State Transportation Building 10 Park Plaza, 2nd Floor Boston , MA 02216 6:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m. We need to stand together on this issue, and we need to insist that the effects of such a policy on the lives of working people and their families must be considered. I hope to see you on Wednesday. My office will be providing transportation to and from the hearing. We will be meeting City View Trolley in Central Square at 5:30 p.m. Please contact my office at 617-635-3200 if you need transportation. Sincerely, Salvatore LaMattina District 1 City Councilor