rideside.net

Posted by virtue on 2009-01-16 13:24:20 +0000

Thanks for posting this, Corby. If all commentary/reporting were like this I could tolerate a lot more of it. Only it very rarely is.

Posted by tgl on 2009-01-16 14:08:31 +0000

My only quibble is the uncertainty expressed about what Hamas wants. Hamas wants to destroy Isreal.

I agree with <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/opinion/14goldberg-1.html?_r=1">Jeffrey Goldberg</a>, it's not all about words or all about sticks. The path forward is with Fatah, so, Israel needs to help Fatah gain control of Gaza. This current action doesn't do that.

I'm a little tried with politicians & commentators proclaiming Israel's right to defend itself. Yes, of course they do. But that misses the point: Does this current action help Israel achieve it's goals? I think the answer to that is no.

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Words matter, /s/action/war/g if it makes you feel better.

Posted by virtue on 2009-01-16 15:36:37 +0000

I think you give Fatah too much credit. I sincerely doubt the ability of any cold war/anti-colonialist relic to successfully transition into an effective governing institution (cf. sub-Saharan Africa). I also find it somewhat problematic to think of Gaza (or any state) as needing to be "controlled" in general, and especially by an organization unable to win a parliamentary majority.

On a side note, in terms of a "European solution," I think Izzedine is a little confused about modern history, and I have a feeling that the return of the Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews to "wherever they came from" might be as problematic as moving the Palestinians back to their pre-1948 homes. Also, I can't help but hear echoes of an earlier European "solution" in that statement, and that one didn't turn out so well.

Posted by tgl on 2009-01-16 15:44:13 +0000

Fatah seems to have made peace with the idea of Israel, Hamas has not.

Instead of "control" I should have used "under the administrative auspices of".

Posted by pamsterdam on 2009-01-16 19:39:23 +0000

Thinking about <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/13/newsid_3053000/3053733.stm">this</a> still reduces me to tears. The day Rabin was assassinated, the peace process - beyond being set back any number of years - seemed to have been thrown into a tailspin.

I found the provided time-line (to the right of the article) of Israeli-Palestinian relations helpful/interesting/depressing.

I still believe that peace is attainable.

Posted by tgl on 2009-01-19 19:45:09 +0000

Hippie!

Posted by Miriam on 2009-02-10 17:37:22 +0000

I know I'm a little late piping in on this one, but I am glad it was discussed on rideside...and everyone's still friends. On New Year's Eve, I had an email correspondence with one of our own in Boston about this very thing. He asked pointed questions, and I responded with talk of peace and why I believe Israel had a right to do what it did...along with the beauty I see in the land and people there and their respect for life.

I showed this correspondence to my boss, who passed it along to local rabbis. I was then asked to speak to a group of students about the situation and how to talk about it with others. I was also asked to read it at our peace rally.

I hope for peace, but am cautiously hopeful. I hope that Palestinians are able to elect and maintain an independent government that has their interests in mind. I hope that Israelis in the southern cities are able to live in their homes, rather than in their bomb shelters. I hope we're able to see and read accurate media reports about what happens there.

Again, I'm glad to see the discussion here, and I apologize for being tardy to it!