WWW.RIDESIDE.NET

Posted by tgl on 2004-11-15 15:03:45 +0000

Great idea: let's get rid of the people with the most knowledge and experience concerning those groups TRYING TO KILL US!

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2004-12-02 22:13:55 +0000

[url=http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20041201&hn=14351] Ah the irony[/url] -- Rumsfeld charged for War crimes IN GERMANY! This [url=http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20041201&hn=14351] link[/url] also mentions the "torture memos" as being "drafted", further evidence that the horrors of Abu Ghraib were actual policy... Not that Rummy will stand trial, but I believe this does mean he can't go to Germany ever again...

Posted by uncle on 2004-12-10 18:57:32 +0000

See other post http://www.rideside.net/drupal/?q=node/1035

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-02-03 06:14:11 +0000

Another From Julian Bond. (via drudgereport) He calls out Powell and Rice.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-02-03 12:16:37 +0000

If Julian Bond likened the GOP to Nazis in the woods, would anyone hear him? Here's an even better question: Would anyone care?

Posted by tgl on 2006-02-03 14:07:51 +0000

Me and db.

Posted by G lib on 2006-02-03 15:01:18 +0000

And most Germans, who are very worried about themselves as well as other countries making the same (huge, horrible, world-altering) mistake. With good reason, in my opinion. In the beginning, most Germans really were just complacent. They followed the rules. They followed party lines. They tried to not get in trouble. They compromised. They let their government legally take more and more power and become more and more fascist, more and more a dictatorship until it was too late. They had made themselves powerless. Do I see a corrolation here? Yes. The safeguard against fascism-- American checks and balances-- are not working. The executive branch has too much power, and is grabbing at more (examples: Allito, USA Patriot, domestic spying, International secret prison camps, for a start.) Germans are scared, and rightly so. Many places in Germany we saw bumperstickers with an image of Hitler, a recycle logo, and then an image of Bush. I agree, and wonder if I will decide that 'enough is enough', before something scary, world-altering mistake happens and I'm powerless to change it. And I'm worried and scared because things are pretty good for most people in the US, so people aren't all that interested in the goverment. I worry that the disinterested American voting block will allow too much power-grabbing to happen, and then it will be too late, just like in Germany. And what ethnic group will it target? Any dummy could figure that out. In Europe, people remember very clearly the effect of Hitler, dictatorships and fascism on their universe, people are outraged every time some domestic spying, torture, secret prison camp, international 'big stick' Bush policy is revealed. But where is the American outrage? Does it appear to you that anyone here really cares?

Posted by cdubrocker on 2006-02-03 15:20:23 +0000

You're so on target, G-Lib. Here's a great series I read a while back on the rise of "pseudo-fascism." It's sort of lengthy, but it's very good.

Posted by cdubrocker on 2006-02-03 15:36:16 +0000

Hitler comparisons are going international!

Posted by tgl on 2006-02-03 15:40:10 +0000

Q: What's the difference between Bush, Chavez, and Hitler? A: Bush wasn't elected by popular opinion.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-02-03 16:58:22 +0000

Well, Bond may not draw the biggest crowd, and NAACP is certainly not what is was just 20 years ago, but people heard him. I would also imagine the GOP would care. Bush can't shake his neo-nazi image, and that's not something that helps parties win elections.

Posted by tgl on 2006-02-03 17:21:37 +0000

Sept. 11th As long as fear Sept. 11th drives the electorate (which Sept. 11th is also a fascist tool) Sept. 11th then the neo-nazi image Sept. 11th won't hurt too much. Sept. 11th

Posted by G lib on 2006-02-03 18:21:19 +0000

Did you make that up?

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-24 20:35:16 +0000

So when the Constitution states that the legislative branch has the power to write the laws and the executive branch the duty to "faithfully execute" them, what is Bush talking about when he states law doesn't apply to him? Who in Congress will lead the charge against the fear-mongers? Should this be under "The Impending Impeachment" thread? "Worst President Ever" thread?

Posted by tgl on 2006-03-24 21:27:34 +0000

You're just sore that Bush won the election. In this country, a 3% edge in the popular vote gives you the mandate to do whatever the hell you want. Especially when we are at war. (I'm still fighting the War on Surprise Attacks, because I don't think FDR responded to the threat of Surprise Attacks after Pearl Harbor sufficiently. Those sneaky Japanese are waiting for just the right time, mind you). The Democrats obviously understand this, as about all they can do is sit around and piss their pants. The executive branch can listen to your phone calls, detain you indefinitely, torture you, deny you due process, snoop through your library records, ignore legislation they find unappealing and retroactively declassify information to besmirch your wife's career just so long as they keep saying "Sept. 11th" every third sentence. Welcome to Neu America.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-24 23:34:36 +0000

Am I the only one depressed by this? Is anyone else contacting their Congressman? When will I stop asking questions?

Posted by buzzorhowl on 2006-03-25 05:06:09 +0000

The number one enemy of progress is questions.

Posted by tgl on 2006-03-25 15:05:20 +0000

It's a bit depressing, but, like all things, it can't last. I keep telling myself that the pendulum has to swing the other way. I guess I've been holding my breath (and my nose) for the past 6 years. Senators Kennedy and Kerry and my Rep. John Tierney are supposedly the most liberal in the Congress, they seem to be representing my interests, if not as forcefully as I'd like. Here's my email: --- To: Sen. Kennedy, Sen. Kerry, rep. Tierney Subject: more oversight I am, once again, appalled by the actions of our President. His most recent outrage is contained in the "signing statement" issued _two_weeks_ after siging the USA PATRIOT Act into law. Why the chief executive must marshall resources to enforce the laws in a prudent manner, choosing not to enfoce laws solely because the executive does not agree with them is ludicruous. I urge you to cut funding for the NSA signal intelligence programs. That money is better spent analyzing the information we are already overwhelmed with rather than this fishing expedition. Thank you.

Posted by cdubrocker on 2006-03-27 15:24:02 +0000

Oh, I am outraged and depressed. I mean, the Glob had it on the front page and who is talking about this? Virtually no one. Andrew Sullivan had a link to it, but the MSM doesn't care much. One article I read had a quote from a PoliScientist saying that it's all "political bluster" with not much real meaning, but the signing statement seemed rather specific to me, and mentioned the "unitary executive" idea, as well. Maybe it's not as big an issue as I think it is, but I'm writing a letter to Kerry, Kennedy, et al this week.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-31 15:38:02 +0000

Never thought I'd quote Bill Maher, but here goes: New Rule... George Bush isn't Hitler. In the 2004 election, MoveOn.org compared Bush to Hitler, ignoring the first rule of being taken seriously by grown-ups, which is: Don't call everyone you don't like "Hitler". Bush is not Hitler.. To be fair, Maher goes on to congratulate Hitler for actually serving in the military, which is pretty funny, but still, the Hitler exaggerations are so annoying..

Posted by cdubrocker on 2006-03-31 16:21:31 +0000

Rumsfeld doesn't know the rule, either.

Posted by tgl on 2006-03-31 16:24:04 +0000

What would you call the constant finger wagging?

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-31 17:30:28 +0000

Interestingly, Bill Maher gets it wrong too. MoveOn did not compare Bush to Hitler; it was a third party. Just like when the NYTimes prints letters written by readers, it isn't the Times that is comparing Bush to Hitler, but we've been over this at rs.n before. What other leaders used a horrible national event to gain powers, invade other countries for no reason, and flat out deny that they are bound by laws? The list doesn't seem that long. The comparisons are useful when trying to show the American people that government is our biggest fear now. Bill Maher is easily my favorite Republican. Commited to lower taxes, civil rights, against government waste, and tells it like it is. Too bad the Right doesn't know what to do with him.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-31 18:22:05 +0000

Bill Maher = Hitler

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-31 18:39:06 +0000

Huh? How?

Posted by cdubrocker on 2006-03-31 18:48:56 +0000

See Godwin's Law.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-31 19:30:38 +0000

I truly loved this last link / post cdub. thanks.

Posted by cdubrocker on 2006-03-31 19:34:54 +0000

faqs are awesome (with apologies to lrf)

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-31 19:37:20 +0000

Can we abide by it then? Honest comparisons to Nazi's only please.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-31 19:40:42 +0000

probably should have made a bracketed [sarcasm] prefix to my Maher comment. A debate comparing anyone to Hitler in a knee jerk fashion IMHO is not a fruitful one, and I was just glad to see that there are others out there that agree.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-31 19:42:49 +0000

Ah.. But who gets to judge what an 'honest comparison' is?

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-31 19:46:04 +0000

That's why a careful comparison and not "knee jerk" one helps. I think that's what we're doing here.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-31 19:47:31 +0000

You do. Please give your serious comparison of Maher and Hitler.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-31 20:04:56 +0000

ok just making sure

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-03-31 20:05:27 +0000

better things to do with my time - sorry. it was a JOKE

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-03-31 21:25:05 +0000

thought so

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-04-13 15:29:50 +0000

A British lieutenant is facing trial for refusing to go to Iraq. "I have evidence that the Americans were on a par with Nazi Germany with its actions in the Persian Gulf. I have documents in my possession which support my assertions." (Hat tip: Drudge) And so it continues.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-04-13 15:54:57 +0000

I cant believe we are still talking about this. But since we are, I dont want people who read this board to think that Dawn's POV is the only one out there. Ok, British lieu: mail in yr evidence to the NYT so everyone can be clear on how Blair = Hitler, so we can then clearly turn that around and deduce that Bush = Hitler. I think some of the below comments from Brits who read that same article were pretty poignant. That Flight Lt Kendall-Smith felt the war in Iraq was illegal is his right to believe. However, it is not within the remit of service personel to decide which orders they would like to obey or which 'enemy' they would or would not like to fight. He had a very simple option if he felt so strongly: resign his commission! - Terence, Hereford I am an ex-serving member of the Royal Air Force. I can understand his reasons for not wanting to go to Iraq as I also did not want to serve in this area. However, I believe the good Doctor should have voted with his feet and resign his commission rather than go to court and cause bitterness between the ranks of serving airmen and airwomen. I could see the war on the horizon after 9/11 and resigned from the RAF in 2002 and believe that he should resign also. - Jim Greer, Stafford, England Regardless of opinion as to the legallity of the conflict this man joined a branch of our armed forces and presumably took an oath to serve as and when required which he has failed to do therefore did he expect anything other than a court marshall. Picture this, 1939 War declared, Colour Sgt adressing soldiers, 'hands up all those who don't mind fighting' - John Phillips, Derby

Posted by tgl on 2006-04-13 16:19:08 +0000

I agree with the sentiment that the officer should have resigned rather than force a court-marshall. Oh, would that the officers of the German Army had done the same thing during the Third Reich.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-04-13 17:52:08 +0000

I'm not even implying that a majority of people see German style fascism in the Bush administration. But if it is a minority, it is growing, and it is certainly not from a just few radicals. Bush did and admits to imprisoning American citizens without charges. And until we find out why the Bush invaded Iraq (Yes, I still have hope we'll find out at some point), military personnel bringing attention to Iraq helps show exactly how unethical it was. While civil disobedience in the military is generally unhelpful, it seems justified here.

Posted by Null Protocol on 2006-04-13 18:16:46 +0000

I agree with you Dawn. If this guy has documents in his possession that will bring clarity to the conflict in Iraq - bring them to the public! So far, unless I'm missing something, we have the defiant act and a mention of damning evidence - all Im saying is share it.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2006-04-13 18:29:40 +0000

Perhaps his damning evidence is simply the news stories from the past 5 years from the WSJ, NYTimes, or any other conservative newspaper. Works for me.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2007-05-30 12:21:27 +0000

Critics will no doubt say I am accusing the Bush administration of being Hitler. I'm not. There is no comparison between the political system in Germany in 1937 and the U.S. in 2007. What I am reporting is a simple empirical fact: the interrogation methods approved and defended by this president are not new. Many have been used in the past. The very phrase used by the president to describe torture-that-isn't-somehow-torture - "enhanced interrogation techniques" - is a term originally coined by the Nazis. The techniques are indistinguishable. The methods were clearly understood in 1948 as war-crimes. The punishment for them was death.

Posted by tgl on 2007-05-30 12:34:42 +0000

Happy Memorial Day [traditional]. Freedom marches on.

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 12:55:32 +0000

MF DU = Hitler http://www.rideside.net:8080/ = Hitler Grownups comparing a dolt who probably can't tie his own shoes much less murder 6 million people to Hitler = Hitler This Hitler Comparison thread = Hitler

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2007-05-30 13:43:33 +0000

You've made awkward posts like this before. Please try and comment on the actual article, and again try to use serious and honest Hitler comparisons.

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 14:04:18 +0000

nope sorry, a childish post deserves another childish post.

Posted by tgl on 2007-05-30 14:08:13 +0000

The US's deplorable treatment of captured enemies (and stomach-turning justification) is not childish. I'm *really* sorry.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2007-05-30 14:17:14 +0000

I believe MF DU was referring to his earlier "(anything) = Hitler" posts as childish, not the posts about torture.

Posted by tgl on 2007-05-30 14:17:58 +0000

I should say: The _concern_ regarding the US's deplorable treatment of captured enemies is not childish. If it's blinding to say "we're using the same techniques and rationalizations that the Nazis used", then that's bad politics I guess. It's still the truth.

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 14:20:39 +0000

Wait a second - did this not start as something like a year or two ago where I was saying that it was a bad idea and immature to compare current day USA to Nazi Germany? I agree with TGL's above assesment re: deplorable treatment of captured enemies and in no way am talking about US policy of any kind. What I personally find childish is to frequently flog a dead horse as far as the 'nazi comparison' issue is concerned. Since this is all the same folks who already debated this ad nasueaum, why bring it up to the same group? Why aesthetically bring it up as a lengthy paragraph linked to everyone's favorite GR other than to say ' I told you so' and to also remind everyone how factually correct and righteous you are? I share dissent and dislike of GWB and the current situation. I do not share the sentiment that we are living in a fascist state and do not choose to compare apples and oranges.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2007-05-30 14:21:57 +0000

This is why I enjoy talking about politics and not the childish stuff that Rosie and that other blonde woman did.

Posted by Rideside Ref on 2007-05-30 14:22:13 +0000

Don't make me come out there.

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 14:23:27 +0000

Even If This Is_The_Truth, as TGL says, and has been established as such on RSN already, what is the resurgence of this thread positievly contributing to this board? Is there new info or a new argument which we haven't heard, or is it just 'tag you're it and nanny-nanny boo-boo'?

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 14:26:35 +0000

get the gestapo refs outta here! circa: pronto

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 14:25:46 +0000

well, at least you let me finish my sentences :)

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 14:28:43 +0000

Are you,like, incapable of only speaking for yourself sometimes? Why is it that you have this omniscent way of understanding all of my posts and telling other people what I meant?

Posted by tgl on 2007-05-30 14:32:46 +0000

If that's how it did start then I disagree: If comparing US policy to Nazi policy is a convenient way to show how utterly wrong-headed the Bush administration is... then I think it's a great idea. --- As far as flogging the dead horse goes... I don't know. I see this stuff and want to alert CC, at the very least. I know that CC is following along. I know that you'll see it as well. Don't click the shiny red "1 new" link? Are you saying we should self-censor? Is it offensive as every time something is "not good" someone uses a euphemism for fellatio to describe it as such? I guess I don't have a good answer for this. --- You're right, we aren't living in a fascist state. However, that's not what anyone is claiming, I think claims are limited to "we're starting to do things that other fascist regimes have done".

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 14:40:23 +0000

Good points here, TGL. I am more sensitive to this type of stuff than I should be. I definitely should use more of my own advice re:"One of The buttons turns the browser off, the other changes the web page". I'd like to state for the record that I am not advocating: -censorship (of any kind) -The Curent state of affairs in the US as a good thing If anyone could use more self-censorship up in this piece, it's me (how many unnecessary posts do I make every day?) [said in earnest with no sarcasm to Conor and TGL and anyone else reading this]Please accept my apologies for my overreaction to this thread. [/said in earnest with no sarcasm.]

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2007-05-30 14:40:03 +0000

I bring it up because I think many of us forget just how awful the Bush approved torture techniques are, which ARE STILL IN USE - anything that can bring it to the attention of American people, and then their governmental representatives to try and stop it. This is current. People are still being tortured! It is not a dead horse in any way. It is an "I told you so" of sorts, but more like a "I'm telling you so". So perhaps we should heed those who had the vision to see just how awful it is to torture people, let alone the consequences of the American soldiers who tortured. Has everyone on rs.n written their Senator/Representatives demanding we stop torturing?

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2007-05-30 14:42:09 +0000

Always ;). It is tough to interrupt online.

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 14:49:11 +0000

An interesting question that I have no answer for: Would the Rideside Ref have had to been called out for this if the post was initially "We're starting to do things that other fascist regimes have done"? instead of "The Nazi Comparisons Continue"?

Posted by tgl on 2007-05-30 14:50:30 +0000

I find very little semantic difference between those two titles.

Posted by MF DU on 2007-05-30 14:54:24 +0000

and I think the reason I do is why I am now apologizing - The Nazi one bugs me, while the other one dosen't. I don't have a rational way of reconciling that. I think it must be a personal quirk / flaw or something on my end.