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Posted by tgl on 2005-03-25 20:19:05 +0000

What's it that you're wavering on? I think we can agree that this is a tragedy. I happen to think the politicization of this tragedy and contempt for US law exhibited by the "culture of life" advocates is a travesty as well.

Posted by G lib on 2005-03-25 21:27:43 +0000

Hear, Hear, TGL. Imagine how painful this situation is for the husband/family, tripled and quadrupled by the media attention and government involvement. ________________ Like, totally!

Posted by tendiamonds on 2005-03-25 21:52:50 +0000

Call me an optimist, but I say this isn't a tragedy, it's fantastic. This is a much needed example that the religious right and their president are fickle and foolish... Not entirely due to this, I can guarantee Bush will not be reelected in 2008.

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-25 22:20:04 +0000

Good point. Bush barely gets 45% approval rating this week. Frist/DeLay/Jeb Bush et al. are really stretching the definition of Republicanism on this one. This is like the Democrats' Ruby Ridge.

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-26 02:31:12 +0000

bullmooseblog Let's err on the side of life, sure, but is the horrid prison that Schiavo appears to be in (IANAD, I Am Not A Doctor) qualify as life? I hope those protesters outside the hospice are praying she _is_not_ cognizant. The Moose is spot on concerning the "nauseating" performance of Republicans this week. What sort of law would have helped the Schiavo-Schindler dilemma? Even if the Schindler's takeover the financial burden of their daughter's state, is that enough to prevent the husband (spouses have more rights than parents under current law) from asserting his wife's right to die?

Posted by rladew on 2005-03-26 03:28:49 +0000

I waver because its hard to objectively qualify someone's quality of life. How can any of us possibly know or dare to judge a family we all know nothing about except what we see on TV and read in the papers? That said, if there is no will, and state law dictates its the husbands decision, then Ive got to side with the husband especially when the videotape in question showing Shiavo "communicating" is agreed upon by most professionals to be simple reflexes. I happened to think of all the reactionary crap out there on this case, and I read the Economists piece and actually thought about the situation without kneejerk emotional or political reactions and appreciated the time and energy put into the Economist's argument.... Its not as simple as Republicans erring on the side of life. Crazy right winger Jay Severin is defending husband Schiavo to the death. People simply cant be pigeonholed into specific political camps. Sayin'. _______________________________

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-03-26 07:59:33 +0000

Correct, it's not all Republicans. It's the religious right, that the Republicans are courting....

Posted by rladew on 2005-03-26 22:42:38 +0000

and thats exactly why I get so pissed off sometimes. If you tell someone that you have conservative leanings, its assumed yr in the NRA, want the 10 commandments posted in the schools, are pro life, and have 10 inbred cousins. simply not true.... _______________________________

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-28 13:57:45 +0000

I completely agree we, as outsiders, cannot be the judge of another's quality of life. (Further down this road we contemplate how any one individual can truly know any one other individual...) That's why it seems such a farce that the Senate Majority Leader stands up and proclaims that Schiavo will recover.

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-28 14:09:42 +0000

So when the President returns from vacation, 150 House Republicans, a voice vote in the Senate, over Palm Sunday weekend, for a bill whose effect is for only one of America's 260million citizens to allow federal oversight into a matter that is clearly a private family issue, one where the state courts have made upwards of 20 unambiguous decisions for the husband... I should not be wondering where the ideals of conservatism and libertarianism have gone in the Republican party? Jay Severin and the other conservatives whose principles are founded in libertarianism are correct on this issue, that does not surprise me.

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-28 16:41:22 +0000

mfgr with more commentary, this one might be the most informative of the bunch. Republicans can gripe and complain that they are mislabeled, however, their actions the past two weeks speak volumes about who is in the driver's seat.

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-29 17:35:57 +0000

Karl Rove pulled a Total Kenobi on this issue (source: Time). Unless this is one of those unpopular but right decisions.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-03-29 17:53:15 +0000

Oh, if only the public would remember...

Posted by rladew on 2005-03-29 22:04:38 +0000

" I should not be wondering where the ideals of conservatism and libertarianism have gone in the Republican party?" Im not sure exactly what yr getting at here... I was expressing my frustration of often being pigeonholed with the religious right if I dare to use the phrase "I'm a conservative" the way Frank Zappa did so well many moons ago on Crossfire... I disagree VEHEMENTLY with the "conservative" or "religous right" stance on the Schiavo situation and I was glad to see The Economist and Severin reflect this... _______________________________

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-29 22:42:40 +0000

I'm wondering where the ideals of conservatism and libretarianism have gone in the Republican Party. The actions of Republican politicians at the national level over the past week adds to the pile of evidence I see that the Republican Party has lost it's moorings. Your frustration is probably better vented at the leaders of the Republican Party. They're the ones causing the confusion. Enabling Federal review of a case that is so clearly the purview of the State is not a conservative stance. It is entirely religious. In other words, The Economist & Severin represent the true conservative stance. DeLay/Frist/Bush et al. seem to think the US is a theocracy.

Posted by rladew on 2005-03-29 23:30:15 +0000

I definitely agree with you here, tgl... Seems the Dems and the Republicans have lost their moorings.. the republicans because, as you put it so well, we are not a theocracy, the democrats becuase they cant seem to invite people with divirgent viewpoints on divisive issues... Maybe we can get some serious consideration for the Libertarian party in 2008.... just a thought... _______________________________

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-29 23:44:17 +0000

Complete "DFW as read in the latest Atlantic" fagen: The Libertarian Party can't seem to get it together. Just to nitpick: Not sure when representing "divergent viewpoints" was considered a pillar of the Democratic Party.

Posted by rladew on 2005-03-29 23:49:01 +0000

all I mean is Dems are gonna have to get some people from the other side of the abortion camp on their side... that wouldve made it less of an uphill battle for Kerry... _______________________________

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-29 23:51:53 +0000

After my initial worrying over "moral values" post-election, I'm less inclined to think that the Democratic Party needs to reach out for pro-life votes. Maybe I should post this in a new thread. We were sooooooo close to keeping this entirely on the Schaivo topic. I Total Kenobi'd the thread.

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-03-30 00:13:52 +0000

Huh? I thought you argued the Democrats had TOO MANY divergent viewpoints in the past election...

Posted by rladew on 2005-03-30 04:36:07 +0000

Ok back on topic for the Schiavo... sorry for my digression with my reaction to the "off its moorings" bit. Just saw that our good friend Jess is gonna try to keep Terry (Schiavo, not Lorber) Alive! (sorry, I couldn't resist.... _______________________________

Posted by rladew on 2005-03-30 04:39:49 +0000

aww shit get thee to a public library!!! damn subscription only websites.... Lucky the Monson Library is across the street.... _______________________________

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-30 04:42:58 +0000

At first I thought Jess? Jess Rath? Then realized you were talking about the Jesse Jackson. Bigger news story... Jesse Jackson in bed with the fundamentalists or Johnnie Cochran dead?

Posted by tgl on 2005-03-30 04:46:17 +0000

wallace in the atlantic This might be worth reproducing "in the public interest".

Posted by rladew on 2005-03-30 05:02:24 +0000

If the body bag doesn't fit.... _______________________________

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-03-30 18:43:52 +0000

Am I the only one who thinks Rev. Jesse siding with Schiavo's parents is natural? Reverends, die hard Christians, born again fundamentalists, miracle wishers... It makes some sense, right? Johnny Cochran... I bet cocaine rumors come out in the next 48 hours. The bigger news is [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/30/opinion/30danforth.html?ex=1269838800&en=047f3baeafb81400&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland]this.[/url] Former Republican senator and our previous UN Ambassador breaks it down wonderfully. (Should post under "Bolton"?)

Posted by G lib on 2005-03-30 19:17:12 +0000

Actually, (and as much as this pains me to say) I think that the way that the Catholic Church makes the most ethical sense-- . Pro-life= thou shalt not kill. . To them, this includes: *no death penalty *prolong life as much as possible (i.e. the pope might get a feeding tube and side with the Shiavos) *no chemical or operational birth control, including abortion. *no physician assisted suicide . Personally, I don't agree with this, but I agree that it makes sense-- how can you be "pro-life" and pro-death penalty but still side with Shiavo's parents? (AHEM-- GW, HOW DOES THIS WORK, by the way???) ________________ "Hardcore Stricken Fagan at the Wad caused dance party Total Kenobi." Rory_Stark

Posted by pamsterdam on 2005-03-31 07:50:12 +0000

Well said. Hear hear! Although I don't think "we liberals" have nonsense views (anti-death penalty, pro-abortion rights, dignity in death) - these are human rights (as opposed to God's will). After all, we were here first (and made "him" up to keep us company), right?

Posted by dawnbixtler on 2005-03-31 20:11:24 +0000

Dead.

Posted by rladew on 2005-03-31 22:50:45 +0000

yep. _______________________________

Posted by Frederick the Younger on 2005-04-01 19:33:05 +0000

"Personally, I don't agree with this, but I agree that it makes sense-- how can you be "pro-life" and pro-death penalty but still side with Shiavo's parents?" Well said, G lib. I have always found it interesting folks can quote The Scripture in one breath and disregard the next... kinda like a salad bar, eeh? Speaking of salad: Save the vegetable lady, burn and pillage for oil! Ok, rude am I in my speech... The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness Is like a villain with a smiling cheek, A goodly apple rotten at the heart. O what a goodly outside falsehood hath! -William Shakespeare

Posted by tgl on 2005-04-01 20:50:51 +0000

Mike F. is F the Y.

Posted by G lib on 2005-04-01 21:01:35 +0000

I never thought it was a pseudonym for Barney_Grove. ________________ "Hardcore Stricken Fagan at the Wad caused dance party Total Kenobi." Rory_Stark

Posted by frame609 on 2005-04-03 17:20:10 +0000

Wish I could lay claim, but I can't- I use way more dashes and would NEVER quote Shakespeare. I still say it's Yoav.

Posted by Honar the librarian on 2005-04-04 14:45:37 +0000

I had this dream that all the rideside gang members' current locations displayed on a world map (basically the geography quiz map). For some reason I was in South Africa, and checking to see if the map was working, I noticed that Frederick the Y's location appeared to be in the North Central region of South Africa.

Posted by tgl on 2005-04-04 15:14:01 +0000

That's bizarre in so many ways.

Posted by Frederick the Younger on 2005-04-04 15:46:56 +0000

Congratulations Honar! You have found my secret lair. Frederick the Younger Opus Dei Numerary Preist Id #453-JC922101 Our Mission: Spread throughout society a profound awareness of the universal call to holiness and apostolate through one's professional work carried out with freedom and personal responsibility. Think about it... where does God fit into your life?

Posted by G lib on 2005-04-05 13:40:23 +0000

F the Y, whomever he is, is a freak. ________________ "Hardcore Stricken Fagan at the Wad caused dance party Total Kenobi." Rory_Stark

Posted by Frederick the Younger on 2005-04-05 18:23:46 +0000

Cast not the first stone! Why lash out to the giving hand? Why take the scythe to the field before the wheat of hope comes full yield? I forgive you, G Lib. May God grant you patience and wisdom.

Posted by rladew on 2005-04-09 17:06:01 +0000

bought my copy on the newstand... not sure if I feel like trying to retype DFW for a repost though... maybe I could scan a gif or jpeg tho.... Atlantic lawyers: bring it!!!! _______________________________

Posted by tgl on 2005-07-08 19:36:38 +0000

The theocons have almost, but not quite, finished milking this sad case. This story won't die...