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Posted by dyedon8 on 2008-03-05 20:20:29 +0000

He *was* born in the weeds.....

Posted by pamsterdam on 2008-03-05 20:31:07 +0000

Weren't they reeds? Or was that another Baptist whitewash I didn't notice? Like Mary & Joseph sleeping in bunkbeds?

Posted by G lib on 2008-03-05 20:39:43 +0000

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Bunkbeds!!!!! (BTW, My first thought was "of course it was reeds! It was reeds and rushes, not weeds!" But then my second thought was, "Oh right, that's a Paul Simon Lyric from "Graceland," and not, actually from CCD.")

Posted by pamsterdam on 2008-03-05 20:44:21 +0000

Do you remember that Sunday school song that goes: I am a C.! I am a C.H.! I am a C.H.R.I.S.T.I.A.N.! I have C.H.R.I.S.T. in my H.E.A.R.T. and I will L.I.V.E. E.T.E.R.N.A.L.L.Y.! (and then you start replacing letters with hand-claps)? Seriously, that shit f*cked me up.

Posted by pamsterdam on 2008-03-05 20:51:31 +0000

L: It was sung to the same tune as: Father Abraham! Had seven sons! Seven sons had Father Abraham! I am one of them, and so are you, so let's all praise the Lord! (and then you start replacing words with hand-claps) They had us memorise hundreds of 'em.

Posted by G lib on 2008-03-05 20:51:36 +0000

I had to sing it over a few times in my mind in order to dredge up a faint memory. This could either be that I only learned it in Lutheran Summer camp (THEY are seriously more f'd up than the Catholics!), or selective memory loss. Probably selective memory loss.

Posted by pamsterdam on 2008-03-05 20:55:38 +0000

Oh, Catholics are nowhere near as f'ed up as Protestants, as far as I've experienced. My Catholic friends grew up believing in charity, humility, and community. I grew up believing that God hated me and wanted to burn me alive. I'll sing it for you when I see you in May. Preferably in a noisy bar.

Posted by dyedon8 on 2008-03-05 20:59:08 +0000

The version we sang at camp didn't have any clapping. It went like this: Father Abraham! Had seven sons! Seven sons had Father Abraham! They didn't laugh -NO! They didn't cry - NO! All they did was go like this: at which point you'd make a hammering motion w/ yr left hand --'With yr. left!' -- followed by right hand (with yr. left, and yr. right!...), left foot, right foot, then a series of 360's on 'Turn around!'

Posted by G lib on 2008-03-05 21:03:45 +0000

There were no claps in father abraham! There was some kind of hand thing that went along with it. "Right hand left hand right hand Left foot" Drumming on knees "Faaaaaaaaaaaa-ther Abraham..." And then sometimes you would do "Hm HMMMM HM HM HM Had many sons" This one I remember pretty well, so that means it came from the "bible study" that the 2 ultra christian hippies down the street ran. One set of parents were vegetarian, they took A LOT of vitamins, and had only an outhouse, and the other set of parents had numerous hysterical pregnancies.

Posted by G lib on 2008-03-05 21:07:24 +0000

Hopefully loudly in a noisy bar. Lutheran summer camp (for one summer!) seriously fucked me up for years. To a catholic, being told "Well, actually, there are some sins that can't be forgiven" changes your entire world view (for the worse). I think if you grow up with it, you just think it's normal.

Posted by tgl on 2008-03-05 21:26:08 +0000

Calling ConorClockwise for a Father Abraham rendition, please!

Posted by dyedon8 on 2008-03-05 21:37:36 +0000

If you grow up with it, you either think it's normal, or fucked.

Posted by Miriam on 2008-03-05 21:37:55 +0000

Damn! Jew Camp was way more tame than that. We just had to speak in Hebrew all the time and got to philosophize about different ways rabbis argued over how to interpret Moses's stoned rendition of what he thought God might be saying. Or if there is a God, or if there is heaven or hell. Then we'd all play a zionist version of capture the flag (we called it British Hagana). The only guilt we had was when we'd steal wine or when our parents would bring us non-kosher food on visitor's day.

Posted by Miriam on 2008-03-05 21:38:42 +0000

He was born at home...and put in the Nile by his sister, Miriam...one of the Pharoh's daughter's handmaidens.

Posted by tendiamonds on 2008-03-05 21:50:38 +0000

Same here. Also: see the bar scene in Sliding Doors.

Posted by pchippy on 2008-03-05 22:43:03 +0000

It's very misleading. It seems to imply that concoctions based on the bark of the acacia are mentioned in the Bible; what it really says is that the acacia tree is mentioned in the Bible. If you actually search the Bible for references to the acacia (or shittah, or shittim--don't laugh!), you find that all the references are to its use in carpentry, for instance in building the ark of the covenant and an altar for the tabernacle. Nowhere (at least that I've found) does it say anything about acacia bark, much less about making concoctions out of acacia bark and then consuming said concoctions before having seemingly supernatural subjective experiences. His argument asks us to assume that the Bible as it has been passed down to us is historically accurate in its accounts of the subjective experiences of Moses and the Israelites, but that the writer (or writers) of the Pentateuch conveniently neglected to mention the repeated ritual consumption of acacia-bark-based concoction by the entire Israelite nation just before each seemingly supernatural subjective experience. Yet writers of the Torah are so obsessive about so many of the small ritual details! The books are filled with dwetails along the lines of how many gold rings hold the curtain that hangs on the rod supported by two posts on the west side of the tabernacle, and what the curtain is made of, and what species of wood the posts are carved from, and precisely how long each of them is, etc. etc. Maybe I just haven't been reading my Bible closely enough, but I think this professor is a bit of a wacko.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-03-06 07:24:42 +0000

Maybe you're reading the Bible too closely - "Buildin' an ark with Acacia bark" was never meant to be taken literally. It has been the colloquial for brewing stoner tea for millenniums. Seriously though, people have been tripping on all sorts of fermented grains, moldy oats, gathered mushrooms, inhaled smoke from bonfires, and perhaps a canteen of water that a carpenter left open when he was de-barking an acacia. While I reject that Mr. Shanon has found the specific drug that caused the pentateuch's visions, nor do I believe "psychedelic drugs formed an integral part of the religious rites of Israelites in biblical times," it is a certainty that they were living during a time when people unknowingly ingested mind altering substances, a time without true science, a time when myth was to be believed.

Posted by pamsterdam on 2008-03-06 07:39:26 +0000

OH!!! Humming. Not clapping. Right. I was thinking of Elvis Costello's first album. My bad.

Posted by virtue on 2008-03-06 12:27:36 +0000

"True science?" Just how many arks have you been building with acacia bark, son. Substitute "true" with "modern" and I'm sold. Although a surprising number of people have no problem reconciling modern science with believing in myth.

Posted by virtue on 2008-03-06 12:32:22 +0000

None of this is wringing any bells, I have to tell you. Even Salvation Army Sunday School was limited to "Rise and Shine and Give God Your Glory."

Posted by G lib on 2008-03-06 13:50:27 +0000

REPENT, SINNER!!!!!!

Posted by MF DU on 2008-03-07 18:26:50 +0000

How long can the RSN header be? I nominate "Nowhere (at least that I've found) does it say anything about acacia bark, much less about making concoctions out of acacia bark and then consuming said concoctions before having seemingly supernatural subjective experiences." as the new header. A+

Posted by tgl on 2008-03-07 19:05:34 +0000

3-4 feet is usually close enough to read the Bible well.

Posted by ConorClockwise on 2008-03-07 19:26:01 +0000

Yep, even the writers of the bible were in denial, but they were close to Egypt.